Front Page › Forums › GENERAL › Chat & Off-Topic › Why Is HIP-HOP / RAP Number One Of All Musical Genres?
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May 26, 2006 at 5:58 pm #534102
MelParticipantOf all the musical genres in the world, has anyone ever wondered why HIP-HOP/RAP is number one? Not only this, but it’s the most prosperous AND arguably the most popular. It’s worldwide now.
Think about it for a moment…there are vocalists out there that can sing like angels, and there are musicians who can actually PLAY instruments without synthesizing them. But for some strange reason, people would rather listen to someone “talk.” As for the average or poor rapper, people would still rather hear his or her poor diction over not-so-good, typical, computer-generated beats. Why is that?
For the sake of HIP-HOP, I’ll say that its because there’s a sincerity in the music form. And that its origins could possibly derive from the simplest form of poetry, which are merely words. What do you think?
AdSense 336x280May 26, 2006 at 5:58 pm #590513
MelParticipantOf all the musical genres in the world, has anyone ever wondered why HIP-HOP/RAP is number one? Not only this, but it’s the most prosperous AND arguably the most popular. It’s worldwide now.
Think about it for a moment…there are vocalists out there that can sing like angels, and there are musicians who can actually PLAY instruments without synthesizing them. But for some strange reason, people would rather listen to someone “talk.” As for the average or poor rapper, people would still rather hear his or her poor diction over not-so-good, typical, computer-generated beats. Why is that?
For the sake of HIP-HOP, I’ll say that its because there’s a sincerity in the music form. And that its origins could possibly derive from the simplest form of poetry, which are merely words. What do you think?
AdSense 336x280May 26, 2006 at 6:58 pm #590514
JuggernautParticipantbecause the media has deformed…nay….demented the true meaning of both genres…you can’t tie them together as one genre if you were after the ‘true’ hiphop or rap. what is commercially available is disposable music for children with short attention spans. play some proper hiphop (uk or us) they wont see the subliminal messages, and in some cases may need to consult a dictionary…
that’s just my ever so shallow/rushed view on it *runs off to work*
AdSense 336x280May 26, 2006 at 8:23 pm #590517
reagansmistressParticipantWhy would I want musicianship when I can have blinged out grillz?
AdSense 336x280May 27, 2006 at 9:19 am #590530
Too IntegratedParticipantSome peepz are talkin’ bout’ "a beat thats so easily made with electronics". You’d be amazed how a hiphop beat isn’t so easily made… Try creating a hook that after 1000 times playback still sounds nice, makes you wanna stomp, or grab a girl whatever..
We in the era of comps. now, so why musicians n’stuff, if you can produce in your studio with electronics. Also with electronics, that have stepped in, the producers have become more original, and creative. So from that point of perspective you should be glad..
It’s not about how you make the music, ultimately it’s about the sound itself. Cuzz a million dollar production performed bij real artists and written bij real songwriters will not automatically make the top charts..
Then, because of electronics all you peepz using sequencers, (yes including myself) can make their own productions now, so saying that you should actually be glad..
Last but not the least, my view on the question.
Why it is the biggest genre. Like mentioned before this genre is so commercialized now it’s sick, the fire of most artists is gone, I admit..
But most youngsters nowaday identify themselves with most artists. ie. ’50 Cent came from the same neighbahood as me mayne, so I’m automatically Ill now too, ya heard?!’
Just like rocknroll and, funk and, whatever, Hiphop is having it’s fase, but the question is, will this one lasts or will it slowly die as time progresses..If you would ask me, I’d say: "I don’t give mayne!" cuzz hate it or not, this is my genre, I produce music in this genre (and do it with upmost care).
So HipHop & Rap can stay for me
…AdSense 336x280May 27, 2006 at 9:49 am #590533
DJ LevantParticipantMel this is a very interesting topic, I was thinking about this a few months ago.
I can understand why Rap/Hip hop is popular in the States especially with its early 1970 origins as a cultural movement. But from an Australian perspective it amazes me just how populsar the genre is. Our top 40 charts, commercial radio stations and our clubs play Hip Hop endlessly and I can’t see how alot of the raps relate to Australian society. Either way it is a very rhythmic genre and creative. Also I think the subjects and topics rappers focus on appeal to a lot of groups particularly youths – a good way for personal expression.
I believe Too Integrated might be correct, maybe Hip Hop is indeed having its fase.
AdSense 336x280May 27, 2006 at 11:31 pm #590574
The CutterParticipantIt’s nice to see a topic like this with well thought out statements/opinions what have you. Everybody’s post leaves you with a lot to ponder. I think if you look at what has been said you will see the answer.
I have never really wondered why rap/hip-hop is so popular etc but why( in my opinion) has it lost it’s message. One reason for it’s popularity is the fact that all rap is was or will ever be is spoken word or even better oral history. Which “is an account of something passed down by word of mouth from one generation to another”. (wikipedia.org)
Before the era of mass printing when more people than not were illiterate or unable to afford the written word etc. everything was passed down orally. So it’s no wonder why rap/hip-hop is so popular all over the world. It’s the most instinctual form of communication. “One thing to bear in mind is that many old traditions of storytelling are synonymous with song, chant, music, or epic poetry…Stories may be chanted or sung, along with musical accompaniment on a certain instrument”. (timesheppard.co.uk)
This leads us to as stated by S.T. and seconded by me that,
S.T. wrote:RECORD COMPANIES ARE GREEDY. Once they found themselves cashing in off of a cheaply produced genre that did not require musicans, long studio sessions and high-priced real producers..they made the switch and kept it that way.This makes a lot of since from a business point of view and rap/hip-hop is big business. Look at how many artists have their own record lables, clothing lines etc. It’s not only the label/industry executives, publishers, ditributors etc that are cashing in on this genre.
S.T. wrote:Plus, hip-hop appeals to the youth which is the industry cash-cow….which means it is based on trends, not actual talent.As long as the youth of the world can get their parents to give them money, the parents teach their children to be good little consumers( this is a whole other topic) and the industry continues to milk this genre it will stay very popular for a long time to come. I hope it get it’s message back.
Another important aspect is that it is getting easier to have the do it yourself approach with the advent of cheaper/faster computers, software and ever increasing technology.
For example “1984… was the most important year for electronic music. Apple made easy-to-use personal computers, giving people the opportunity to use the technology in their own homes. Yamaha had just revolutionized the genre with the DX-7 keyboard. And a new computer language, called MIDI, enabled communication between any piece of electronic musical equipment and any computer. The future of music technology has already evolved to include an array of new instruments, recording capabilities and personalization software”. ( journalnews.com)
Because of this more and more people will be able to communicate via this modern oral tradition called rap/hip-hop.
This is just my thoughts and opinions sorry if this reads like a research paper. I am trying to get back into the academic mind frame. Thinking about working on my masters.
Have a nice day,
Mr.C.
AdSense 336x280May 28, 2006 at 1:14 pm #590599
Surface1ParticipantTo be honest hip hop has just been growing and growing more popular for years now so its no surprise that its the biggest genre in the music industry today.
But I agree with Mel, its basically just a computer generated beat with someone talking about what happened in their life, don’t get me wrong I do like hip hop but its just getting a bit to in your face now, with more and more people getting into the rapping business its just gonna get all the more popular than it is now.
A guy who can rap will get more credit for a girl that can sing like whithey houston. And a guy who can play guitar like Steve Vai won’t get as much credit as a guy who can make a drum loop on a computer.
Its more annoying than anything.
AdSense 336x280May 28, 2006 at 5:23 pm #590606
vice versesParticipantsomething nobody has touched upon, and my reason for loving hip hop over other genres of today, is that it covers different emotions….
you have the chilled out laid back summer tracks
the love songs
you have the club bangers,
and then you also have the deep emotional heartfelt tracks
a lot of genres today,… such as dance music/drum n bass etc do not cover all these areas,… admitedly maybe rock/britpop cover some of these but overall i think that if a genre can touch on all these bases then there is a track for anytime of the day!!
just my opinion, and i maybe didnt make clear what im trying to say?!?!?
V.V.
AdSense 336x280May 28, 2006 at 10:08 pm #590614
JuggernautParticipantyou’ve kinda hit a nerve there….i dunno about dance music but emotions in tracks are very very evident in dnb, if you listen to jazz step/liquid dnb as opposed to the harder styles of dnb, different emotions are evident…just like house: be it funky, electro, tribal or progressive. the way in which emotions are represented in genres will differ greatly and all depend on how each individual can relate to a track.
Emotion in music (and music itself) is a VERY subjective issue that is neither black nor white but a whole spectrum of grey where no one is right or wrong. However, as has been stated many times before, the popularity of this/these genres is due to the media and music industry forcing quick chart-topping tracks that are easy to commit to memory so when you’re in a club you can sing along and/or know that you’re part of a group of "in-people" thus giving some fake form of comfort in being part of a majority.That’s just what i see from playing at a uni nightclub, one hour of rnb, and all the big hitters get’s everyone going "oh!" where as the last hour when dnb is played (and let’s be serious, how much dnb is actually commercial as far as radio play and general knowledge is concerned…5 tracks?) it’s just the hardcore dnb heads left and those who are open minded going crazy.
I know this has totally deviated from the original post, but as said before hand…you hit a nerve
AdSense 336x280May 29, 2006 at 10:17 am #590645
Surface1Participant[quote quote="vice verses":3bh5c2fp]something nobody has touched upon, and my reason for loving hip hop over other genres of today, is that it covers different emotions….
you have the chilled out laid back summer tracks
the love songs
you have the club bangers,
and then you also have the deep emotional heartfelt tracks
a lot of genres today,… such as dance music/drum n bass etc do not cover all these areas,… admitedly maybe rock/britpop cover some of these but overall i think that if a genre can touch on all these bases then there is a track for anytime of the day!!
just my opinion, and i maybe didnt make clear what im trying to say?!?!?
V.V.[/quote:3bh5c2fp]
I have to agree on that one although dance music does touch all areas, you have chillout songs, you have love songs ok not with as much emotion but still, you have all the hard hitting club tracks etc etc.
Fair point though
AdSense 336x280May 31, 2006 at 2:01 pm #590730
MelParticipantI’d like to comment on what Vice Verses said, concerning Hip-Hop and the various emotions it dealt with.
In my opinion, Hip-Hop stopped dealing with relevant emotions around 95 – 96 when Tupac was alive, and Wu-Tang Clan were holding it down, etc. Like it or not, cats like Nas (who happens to be my favorite emcee), Biggie, Jay-Z, and Mase were the ones who ushered in the short-lived “mafia rap,” which led to the whole “bling-bling” thing we see today.
That said, hip-hop does cover a lot of emotion, but it stems from one common denominator—money. Hip-Hop love songs: “Girl, come ride with a baller and let’s buy out the Gucci store.” Chill songs: “We gone be chillin’ dipped in the flyest gear and tightest whips smoking the best weed.” Club bangers—I don’t even need to explain. So, if money is the main and underlying subject, BUSINESS comes into play. I’m a firm believer that for artistic sake, art and business should not mix because then standards come into play. There should be NO standards or rules when it comes to GOOD art. That’s why half of this Hip Hop coming out is garbage—because its all based on standards now (eg, hit singles = club bangers, keeping real = packing steal and people killed)
Therefore, I can appreciate the abstractness that comes with Dance, House, Trance, whatever. It’s like a breath of fresh air. In my personal opinion, Hip Hop has gone to the dogs.
AdSense 336x280May 31, 2006 at 8:31 pm #590752
DJ ValParticipantHip Hop & Electro House.
Hmm your ask yourselves.
artical is taken from my website, which you may find interesting. Well I did
AdSense 336x280May 31, 2006 at 11:15 pm #590761
JuggernautParticipant[quote quote="DJ Val":v6eeg376]Hip Hop & Electro House.
Hmm your ask yourselves.
artical is taken from my website, which you may find interesting. Well I did
[/quote:v6eeg376]
where’s mr Afrika Bambaataa himself?…he was greatly influenced by Kraftwerk (something express…i can’t remember what it’s called)…great link there
i <3 boogaloo
also about hip-hop/money…fair point and it’s true for probably 80% of it, and probably more so in the states, but (deviating again from the original point somewhat) the "underground" artists as it were who rap about anything from money issues, to just having a great day and appreciating life as it is….that’s not really based on money now is it? (but then again, what you’re looking at, i guess is the big/deformed "media" picture of rap or hip hop in general)
AdSense 336x280June 5, 2006 at 2:04 am #590993
badboycParticipantits cuz thats wa every1 likes..
every race listins 2 rap..
thats jus the way it is..
AdSense 336x280June 5, 2006 at 10:33 am #591031
JuggernautParticipantJust like that…!
AdSense 336x280June 7, 2006 at 1:51 am #591102
big pun 2k6Participantbecause rap is easy to listen to and dance to the only other msuici i feel is just as powerful and monry making is reggaeton
AdSense 336x280June 27, 2006 at 1:11 pm #592303
eikcamlloydParticipantRap music is truly an American minority artist creation of which students need to be proud. Unfortunately, rap music is not perceived by many Americans as an art form, but as a fad which they hope will soon fade away. One of my intentions with my unit is to show that rap music is not a fad, but a musical art form that has been around for over 20 years in the United States. In fact, one can trace the history of rap back to the West African professional singers/storytellers known as Griots. However, it is not my intention to discuss in my unit the connection between the Griots and American rap music. Although, I will assign my students the task of doing a brief report on the African Griots prior to beginning my unit to help illustrate to my students that rapping has a long and illustrious history. I strongly suggest that anyone using my unit do the same. My unit is intended for middle school or high school students who are studying American history.
One can not study American rap music without studying what is known as the ‘Hip Hop’ culture. Rap is an integral part of this subculture that did not evolve or exist in isolation from its other major components. Thus, one of my unit objectives will be to not only discuss and study rap music but also the other major parts of this subculture. ‘Hip Hop’ culture was also comprised of graffiti, break dancing, and the attitude and dress of the people who subscribed to the mores and traditions of this subculture. Another objective of my unit will be to examine the influence Jamaican music had on American rap music. Finally, I intend to examine some of the major American rap artists and their styles and the technology which played a major role in the evolution of rap music in the United States.According to my research all sources seem to point to the Bronx in New York City as the origin for the ‘Hip Hop’ culture. The first major component of this subculture I wish to explore is the graffiti aspect. Prior to discussing this aspect students need to know what conditions or events existed in the Bronx which fostered the development of the ‘Hip Hop’ culture. Steven Haver in his book, “Hip Hop; the Illustrated History of Break Dancing, Rap Music and Graffiti,” states that there were three major events which took place in the Bronx which led to the birth of this subculture. First, in 1959 Parks Commissioner Rober Moses began building an expressway through the heart of the Bronx. As a result, the middle class Italian, German, Irish, and Jewish neighborhoods disappeared overnight. In addition, businesses and factories relocated and left this borough. (I intend on having a map of New York City available to show my students where the Bronx is located at this point in my unit. I also plan on writing to the city of New York to inquire if a map exists which depicts the Bronx and the expressway construction back in 1959. I would advise anyone using my unit to do the same.) These exiting middle classes and businesses were replaced by poor black and Hispanic families. Accompanying these poor people were crime, drug addiction, and unemployment.
The second major event which occurred once again under the direction of Parks Commissioner Robert Moses would siphon off a majority of what was left of the middle class in the Bronx. This event occurred in 1968 with the completion of a 15,382 unit co-op apartment complex on the northern edge of the Bronx near an expressway. This project fostered and accelerated the Bronx middle class exodus from comfortable and well-kept apartments. As a result of the skyrocketing vacancy rates reputable landlords began selling out to professional slumlords. As a consequence of this action the Bronx deteriorated into a neighborhood with many unkept and vacant buildings.
The Bronx in this deteriorating condition fell prey to the third major event which led to the direct development of the graffiti aspect of the ‘Hip Hop’ culture. This event occurred in 1968 and coincided with Robert Moses’ second major project in the Bronx, the Co-Op City. It should be noted that these last two events were not related. This third event involved a group of seven teenage boys who began terrorizing the vicinity around the Bronxdale Project on Bruckner Boulevard in the southeast Bronx. This may not seem important, but this group of teenagers laid the groundwork for a surge of street gang activity that would overwhelm the Bronx for the next six years. This group at first called itself the Savage Seven, but as more members joined, the group changed its name to the Black Spades. Overnight street gangs appeared on every corner of the Bronx. It should be noted that Afrika Bambaataa (who from time to time in my unit will be referred to as Bam), who had a tremendous effect on rap music and the ‘Hip Hop’ culture and who will be discussed at length in another section of my unit, was a member and leader of the Black Spades at one time. I bring this point up to illustrate that many rappers in the ‘Hip Hop’ subculture were gang members at some time in their life.
Gangs in New York reached their peak in 1973, so states Steven Hager in his book. The Black Spades, one of the largest streetgangs in New York, started to decline after this period. According to Bam, some gangs got into drugs, others got wiped out by rival gangs, while others became so large that members did not want to be involved anymore. Bambaataa went on to say that girls got tired of the gang life and wanted to start to raise children. Times were changing, with the advent of the seventies people were getting into music and dancing and going to clubs. One legacy of the gangs which affected the ‘Hip Hop’ culture was gang graffiti. Nobody really knows how graffiti evolved, but we know that it has been around for a long time. It goes as far back as during World War II when someone wrote “Kilroy was here” in a startling number of places in our country and abroad. During the fifties streetgangs used graffiti for self-promotion, marking territorial boundaries and intimidation.
However, around 1969 something changed and graffiti became a way of life with its own code of behavior, secret gathering places, slang, and esthetic standards for hundreds of New York City youths according to Steven Hager in his book. No one knows who started graffiti during this era but we do know who made it famous. It was TAKI 183. TAKI 183 was a teenager from Greece named Demetrius. Demetrius was first influenced when he saw “Julio 204” written on a street. Julio was a teenager who lived on 204th Street. Demetrius took his nickname which was Taki and placed it front of the street on which he lived, 183rd Street. Thus, the tag name TAKI 183 was created. Demetrius proceeded to write his tag name in as many places as he could find.
Graffiti writing was mainly written with spray paint until the invention of the magic markers in the sixties. The magic marker helped the spread of graffiti writing because it was easier to conceal and at the same time left an indelible mark on just about any surface as did the spray paint.
At first graffiti writing was limited to just artists writing their tag names. Some examples of some famous tag names in NYC other than TAKI 183 were SLY II, LEE 163d, PHASE 2, and TRACY 168. There was a large group of graffiti writers who attended DeWitt Clinton High School which was located across the street from a Transit Authority storage yard. The subway system was a main target of the early graffiti writers. A common meeting place was a coffee shop near DeWitt on W. Mosholu Parkway. Whenever a bus pulled up outside, dozens of writers would descend upon it and write their tags on it. It is even evident today that some graffiti writers are still into writing their tag names by walking through any neighborhood in New York, or in fact by even walking through certain sections of New Haven. One activity I plan on having my students to do is to canvas the Fair Haven neighborhood looking for graffiti tag names written on buildings, sidewalks, etc. It might be difficult for students to find out who these graffiti artists are in their neighborhood because it is part of the graffiti writers’ code not to reveal their real names except to other graffiti writers.
Style is one of the most important aspects in graffiti writing. One could gain respect and recognition by getting one’s name around in large quantities, but it was more prestigious to create an original lettering style. One graffiti writer who did this in 1972 was an artist known as Super Kool. Super Kool replaced the narrow dispersion cap on his spray paint with a wider spraying cap found on a can of oven cleaner. Graffiti writers who imitated the writing styles of others were known as “toys”. According to the graffiti artist PHASE II in Steven Hager’s book, stealing spray paint went along with the graffiti lifestyle. As you can see, as graffiti writing developed so did a code dictating behavior and style.
As the graffiti aspect of the ‘Hip Hop’ subculture developed, graffiti writing groups started to form. One of the most revered and earliest group to form was the Ex-Vandals. Another famous group was the Independent Writers who had Super Kool as a member. Independent Writers indicated their affiliation with their group by writing ‘INDS’ after their tags or signatures. Another graffiti writing group that deserves mentioning is a group called Wanted which was founded by TRACY 168 in 1972. Tracy was a streetwise white kid who was so tough that he was allowed to hang out with the Black Spades. What made the group the Wanted unusual was that they had a permanent clubhouse in the basement of an apartment complex on the corner of 166th Street and Woodycrest Avenue in the Bronx. At its peak in the seventies the Wanted had over seventy members. Some other important graffiti writing groups which existed in NYC were the Magic, Inc., the Three Yard Boys, the Vanguards, the Ebony Dukes, the Writers Corner 188, The Bad Artists, the Mad Bombers, the Death Squad, the Mission Graffiti, the Rebels, the Wild Style, the Six Yard Boys, and the Crazy 5. Membership was not exclusive, some graffiti artists belonged to several groups.
Graffiti reached a new peak of activity during 1976 when whole subway car murals started to appear more frequently. The graffiti artist Lee Quinones became well known for his subway car murals. The Transit Authority did not view these murals as works of art. In 1977 the Transit Authority established a giant subway car wash at its Coney Island train yard at annual cost of $400,000. This discouraged many graffiti artists who were into subway train murals. At this subway car wash the cars were sprayed with large amounts of petroleum hydroxide. After which, the graffiti murals and writings were buffed off. The graffiti artists referred to the spray as ‘Orange Crush’ which they named after the defoliant ‘Agent Orange’ which was used in Vietnam. The smell from this spraying caused many people who came into contact with it to become nauseous. Some graffiti artists tried to counter this process known as ‘buffing’ by using a better quality of spray paint which they covered with a clear enamel. This was not effective because the Transit Authority found out that in order to counter this new technique, all they had to do was run the trains through the ‘buffing’ process several more times.
Lee Quinones had a better solution to the ‘buffing’ process. Quinones abandoned painting his murals on the subway trains and started painting his murals on handball courts. It should be noted that handball court painting originated with TRACY 168 but it was Quinones who was known primarily for painting these courts. Quinones court murals mingled cartoon imagery with a strong moral sensibility. One mural pleaded for end to the arms race. Another mural portrayed a ten foot tall Howard the Duck emerging form a trash can with the inscription: “If art like this is a crime, let God forgive me.”
These graffiti muralists painted for the pure pleasure without ever attempting to earn money from their art. One day, Fred Brathwaite, a graffiti artist himself, approached Quinones about painting murals for money. Quinones thought that this was a good idea and together with Brathwaite formed a graffiti mural group known as the Fab 5. The other members were Lee, Doc, and Slave. In the February 12, 1979 issue of the Village Voice in an article by Howard Smith this group advertised that they were available to paint murals at a cost of $5 per square foot. Smith asked Brathwaite, “ Are you kidding? Most people I know in this city are trying to get rid of you spray can freaks!” Brathwaite responded by telling Smith that graffiti art is the purest form of New York art ever created. Brathwaite went on to say in this article that it was obvious that the Fab 5 was influenced by such new wave artists as Warhol, Crumb, and Lichtenstein. Brathwaite said this knowing that graffiti muralists were not influenced by these new wave artists let along the fact that many graffiti artists were unaware of these new wave artists. Brathwaite made this statement because he realized the importance of connecting graffiti art with the hip downtown New York art scene, especially Andy Warhol. Smith’s article attracted the attention of an Italian art dealer by the name of Claudio Bruni. Bruni contacted Brathwaite and invited the Fab 5 to submit five canvases for an art show in Rome. The five canvases sold for a thousand dollars apiece.
There were three other contacts with the legitimate art world at this time that should be noted according to the author Steven Hager. The first involved Stephan Eins, owner of the gallery Fashion Moda. Eins cultivated a relationship with local graffiti artists because he was looking for a new direction to go in other than what was socially acceptable at the time. Graffiti art fit the bill. The second contact involved Sam Esses, a Park Avenue art collector. When Esses found out that there was an European interest in graffiti art via his contact with Claudio Bruni, he decided to pursue this art form. Graffiti’s third contact with the legitimate art world was via Henry Chalfant, a sculptor who had been taking pictures of graffiti during this period. Chalfant approached Ivan Karp of O.K. Harris Gallery about exhibiting his graffiti photographs in his gallery, which Karp agreed to do. Slowly but surely graffiti art began to receive the recognition which it deserved.
In 1980 two key things happened that would have a lasting effect on graffiti art. The first occurred in June of 1980 with the Times Square Show. It was the first time new aspiring artists would come in contact with and display their art work with graffiti artists. One of the most notable contacts was that between Keith Haring and Fred Brathwaite (Brathwaite began to be known as ‘Fab Five Freddy’. Our students might recognize this name as the name of the person who hosts ‘Yo! MTV Raps!’). It was after this show that Keith Haring began to produce the graffiti art for which he became famous. Haring would be walking along through the subways and would just stop and begin drawing with white chalk on the black tar paper used to cover unrenewed poster ads in the subway corridors. It wasn’t unusual for Haring’s work to go untouched in the subway system because his work was so admired.
The other major event which was to occur in 1980 happened in December. Richard Goldstein, author of the first pro-graffiti story in a New York magazine in 1973, wrote an extensive article in the Village Voice on new graffiti writers. This article was important for two reasons. First, Goldstein countered the myth that graffiti writers were an antisocial element. Goldstein felt that some of the graffiti artists who wrote on subway walls and tenement halls were bright individuals who were just expressing themselves in the environment in which they lived. Second and most important, Goldstein in this article was the first to link graffiti and rap music together. His assumption that graffiti and rap music originated from the same cultural conditions was a valid assumption. In fact, some prominent graffiti writers went on to record rap records and play an influential role in the development of the rap music industry, for example PHASE 2, FUTURA, and Fab Five Freddy (Brathwaite).
It was stated earlier in my unit that the ‘Hip Hop’ subculture and rap music seemed to have originated in the United States in the Bronx. Before discussing rap music in the United States one must examine Jamaican music because it had a tremendous effect on American rap music. One style of Jamaican music that needs to be explored was known as ‘toasting’.
Dick Hebdige in his book, “Cut ‘N’ Mix” described Jamaican ‘toasting’ as when the Jamaican disc jockies talked over the music they played. This style developed at dances in Jamaica known as “blues dances”. “Blues dances” were dances which took place in large halls or out in the open in the slum yards. “Blues dances” were a regular feature of ghetto life in Jamaica. At these dances black America R&B records were played. Jamaicans were introduced to these records by black American sailors stationed on the island and by American radio stations in and around Miami which played R&B records. Some favorite R&B artists were Fats Domino, Amos Melburn, Louis Jordan, and Roy Brown. There was a great demand for the R&B type of music, but unfortunately there were no local Jamaican bands which could play this type of music as well as the black American artists. As a result, ‘sound systems’ (comprised of DJs, roadies, engineers, bouncers) which were large mobile discotheques were set up to meet this need.
The record playing systems of ‘sound systems’ had to be large so people could hear the bass by which to dance according to Hebdige. The major player in the ‘sound systems’ was the DJ. Some notable Jamaican DJs were Duke Reid, Sir Coxsone, and Prince Buster. They were performers as well as DJs. For example, Duke Reid dressed in a long ermine cloak with a pair of Colt 45s in cowboy holsters with a cartridge belt strapped across his chest and a loaded shotgun over his shoulder. This outfit was topped off with a gilt crown on his head. Just as there were to be DJ battles (competition) in the Bronx, they would occur first in Jamaica with one DJ trying to out play another DJ. As in both ‘battles’, here in the U.S. and Jamaica, the competition boiled down to who had the loudest system and the most original records and technique. It was not uncommon for things to get out of hand and for fighting to erupt during these DJ battles at the Jamaican “blues dances” once the crowds got caught up in this frenzy. It was said that Duke Reid would bring the crowd under control by firing his shotgun in the air.
At first Jamaican toasting began when DJs would ‘toast’ over the music they played with simple slogans to encourage the dancers. Some of these simple slogans were “Work it, Work it” and “Move it up”. As ‘toasting’ became more popular so did the lengths of the toasts. One of the first big “toasting” stars was a Jamaican named U Roy (his real name was Ewart Beckford). Another technique which developed along side ‘toasting’ was called ‘dubs’. ‘Dubbing’ was when the record engineers would cut back and forth between the vocal and instrumental tracks while adjusting the bass and the treble. This technique highlighted the Jamaican ‘toasting’ even more.
There are four areas which Jamaican ‘toasting’ and American rap music have in common. First, both types of music relied on pre-recorded sounds. Second, both types of music relied on a strong beat by which they either rapped or toasted. American rap music relied on the strong beat of hard funk and Jamaican “toasting” relied on the beat from the Jamaican rhythms. Third, in both styles the rapper or toaster spoke their lines in time with the rhythm taken from the records. Fourth, the content of the raps and toasts were similar in nature. For example, as there were boast raps, insult raps, news raps, message raps, nonsense raps, and party raps there also existed toasts that were similar in nature. At this point in my unit I will introduce my students to some music of some notable Jamaican toasters such as U Roy, Duke Reid, Sir Coxsone, and Prince Buster. In addition, I will ask my students to bring in some rap records which illustrate the different types of raps mentioned above.
Steven Hager in his book states that in 1967 a young Jamaican would immigrate to the Bronx bringing with him his knowledge of the Jamaican ‘sound system’ scene and Jamaican ‘toasting’ style. His name was Clive Campbell. He was known as Kool Herc in the Bronx. Campbell received the nickname Hercules while he was attending Alfred E. Smith High School in 1970 by a friend. His friend called him Hercules because of his physique. Clive was into weight lifting. Clive did not like the name Hercules so he shortened it to Herc. When Herc became a graffiti writer he took the tag name Kool Herc. Kool Herc began to DJ in 1973 once he had amassed a great sound system. The Jamaican influence of having a large sound system was not lost on Herc. Herc realized that in order for large crowds to dance to his music they needed to hear the beat. Kool Herc seldom played an entire song. He knew which part of the record sent his audience into a frenzy. It was usually a 30 second “break” section in which the drums, bass, and rhythm guitar stripped the beat to its barest essence. Herc would buy two copies of the same record and play it over and over emphasizing the break section. Herc used two turntables to accomplish this feat. This technique became known as “beats” or “break-beats”. As in graffiti, style was important and to be imitated if it was good. What was odd about Herc’s style was that he did not use headphones to locate the breaks on the other turntable as other DJs would do who would later use his style. As with the onset of Jamaican ‘toasting’, Kool Herc also used simple phrases to encourage his dancers. But as the mixing in the “breaks” between the two turntables required more concentration, Herc became the first DJ to create MC-Dance team. (While Kool Herc performed at a club named the Hevalo, dancers to his music became known as ‘break dancers’)
There are several other DJs that made contributions to American rap music that need to be noted of whom my students may not be aware. Most students if you ask them are aware of a technique called ‘scratching’, but are unaware of who started it. The technique called ‘scratching’ was invented by a DJ called Theodor. ‘Scratching’ involves the DJ spinning a record backwards and forward very fast while the needle is in the groove. A record when it is handled in this way can become a percussive instrument. With the advent of the CD, this technique may become obsolete. Another important Bronx DJ was George Saddler who was known as Grandmaster Flash. Grandmaster Flash was an expert at ‘punch phasing’. ‘Punch phasing’ is when a DJ hits a particular break on one turntable while the record on the other turntable is still playing (and it does not necessarily have to be the same record as in the case of Herc’s “break-beat” style). ‘Punch phasing’ is used to accentuate the beat and rhythm for the dancing crowd. Flash also used a beat box. This was a machine that produced an electronic beat. As time went on some rap groups had members who were known as ‘human beat boxes’ who produced sounds using their mouth, lips, and throats. This technique has faded in use. One group that was famous for the ‘human beat box’ sound was known as the Fat Boys.
There is one other early American DJ that deserves mentioning and that is Afrika Bambaataa. Bam ran a sound system at the Bronx River Community Center. As Bob Marley was a spokesperson for reggae, Bam was an ambassador and spokesperson for the ‘Hip Hop’ culture. Afrika Bambaataa was the name of a famous 19th century Zulu chief, the name means Affectionate Leader. Bam took his role as a leader in the ‘Hip Hop’ culture seriously. In 1975 Bam founded an organization known as the Zulu Nation. The major function of this organization was to replace gang rumbles and drugs with rap, dance, and the ‘Hip Hop’ style. There is a chapter of the Zulu Nation in New Haven. At this point in my unit I will see if it is possible to get a representative from this chapter to visit my classroom.
At this point in my unit I would like to break away from talking about rap music and talk about ‘break dancing’ which evolved around rap. ‘Break dancing’ was a style of dancing that grew up around rap music during rap’s early stages of development in the United States. ‘Break dancing’ stretched the human body to its limit. It was a very dangerous form of dancing which I am glad to say has faded in its popularity due to the number of injuries incurred. Very few, if any students ‘break dance’ today. Once I describe some of the common ‘break dance ‘ moves it will be quite evident why this type of dancing declined.
One popular move in ‘break dancing’ was known as the ‘Floor Lock’. In this move dancers would support themselves on one hand while spinning their bodies around while kicking out their legs. Another popular move was the ‘Handglide or Flow’. In this particular move the dancers would spin their bodies while balancing them on one elbow. The ‘Backspin’ and the ‘Windmill’ moves were beak moves that used the shoulder as a pivot. The ‘Headspin’ move as its name indicates, required the dancer to spin using his head as the pivot point. Then there was the ‘lofting’ move in which the dancers would dive in the air and land on their hands. Probably one of the most dangerous break moves was the ‘Suicide’ move. In this move the dancer falls forward with their hands to the side doing a complete flip landing flat on their back. If the dancer survived this move they would freeze into a posture indicating the completion of their routine. As with other aspects of the ‘Hip Hop’ subculture, originality and style were of the upmost importance in ‘break dancing’. It seemed that the more original the moves were in ‘break dancing’ the more hazardous they were to the dancer’s health.
According to Dick Hebdige in his book, “Cut ‘N’ Mix,” ‘break dancing’ would be replaced in the ‘Hip Hop’ culture by dance moves known as the ‘electric boogie’ moves. Most of these moves would call for dancers to snap and twitch muscles in time to the music. Some of the most popular moves of this style of dance were the Tick, the Mannequin or Robot, the King Tut, the Wave, the Pop, the Float, and the Moonwalk which was made famous by the great Michael Jackson. In fact, many of Michael’s dance moves were this style of dancing. Our students may still be familiar with some of these ‘electric boogie’ moves and with a little encouragement they might be willing to demonstrate some of them. Michael in his recent famous interview with Oprah Winfrey gave credit to the Moonwalk and several of his moves to dancers he observed in clubs and on the streets. These moves had originated from dancers into the ‘Hip Hop’ culture.
The ‘electric boogie’ moves according to Hebdige were replaced in 1982 by a type of dancing known as ‘free style’ in which dancers would improvise their own moves. As I was researching my unit I asked several middle and high school students what new dance was popular now and their response was ‘free style’. They said, “Mr. Rhodes, we just do whatever we feel like doing.” This may be the case, but if one observes a middle school or high school dance one can not but help to notice that some of the dance moves seem very similar in nature. I believe that this can be explained by the fact that even though style and originality have always been important factors in the ‘Hip Hop’ culture so has imitation.
When one examines the dress of the ‘Hip Hop’ culture it is quite evident that one major factor affecting the dress of this subculture has been their dances. Whether the dancer was doing ‘break’ moves, ‘electric boogie’ moves, or ‘free style’ moves loose fitting clothing was a prerequisite in order to do these moves. Also, comfortable shoes would be needed, and sneakers seem to have filled this need. One only needs to look at what are students love to wear to see the validity in the statements concerning dress made above. A question may arise about why young male students wear their pants hanging down by their hips. This style did not result from the dance styles of the ‘Hip Hop’ culture but from a more dubious source, one that many of these young male students are completely unaware of. This style originated in the prisons. Unfortunately, there is a high percentage of young minorities that are incarcerated at some point in their life. Once behind these locked doors prison officials usually remove inmates’ belts for obvious reasons. As a consequence, inmates would walk around with their pants around their hips. Once these young inmates were released and returned to their old neighborhoods, they brought with them this style of wearing their pants around their hips. This style became popular with young males without their realizing they were emulating a style that had originated in prison. I by no means am implying that if these young males had known the origin of this style that this style would not have become so popular. If one talks to any one who has been incarcerated they will substantiate the fact that this style has been in prisons for many years.
At this point in my unit I would like to examine the rap music industry today. Even though rap is proportionally more popular among blacks, its primary audience is white and lives in the suburbs according to David Samuels in his article in the November 11, 1991 issue of “The New Republic.” The article was titled “The Rap on Rap: the ‘Black Music’ that Isn’t Either”. Samuels attempts to substantiate this fact by revealing that the number one selling record in 1991 according to Billboard Magazine was Niggaz4life, a celebration of gang rape and other violence by the group N.W.A. (Niggers With Attitude). Billboard Magazine in the summer of 1991 started to use ‘Soundscam’, a much more accurate method of counting record sells by scanning the bar codes of records sold at the cash register instead of relying on big-city record stores to determine the most popular record. Samuels went on to state that the more rappers were packaged as violent black criminals the bigger the white audience became. I do not think any one can account for the popularity of rap to a white audience no more than one could account for the popularity of the black entertainment in the ‘speakeasies’ to the white audiences of the late 1920s and 1930s. Other than the attraction which exists for something that is taboo or forbidden by one’s social group.
The first rap record to make it big was “Rapper’s Delight” released by the Sugar Hill Gang on Syliva and Joey Robinson’s Sugar Hill label. Mr. David in his article said that “Rapper’s Delight” (a nonsense rap), “White Lines” (a rap with an anti-drug theme), and “The Message” (about ghetto life in the black neighborhood) were designed to sell records to whites and had a less favorable reaction in the streets where rap was created according to Russell Simmons, president of Def Jam Records. Simmons recalls an incident when Junebug, a famous DJ of the time, was playing “The Message” and Ronnie DJ put a pistol to his head and said, Take that record off and break it or I’ll blow your f——-g head off. The whole club stopped until he broke the record and put it in the garbage. This attitude may have been true for certain rappers but I have my doubts if this attitude was a true reflection of how a majority of African-Americans felt who liked rap music. I base my assumption on the fact that when I used to frequent clubs, two of the most requested records were “Rapper’s Delight” and “The Message”. (These clubs were predominately attended by blacks.)
Run-D.M.C. was the first black rap group to break through to a mass white audience with their albums, Run-D.M.C and King of Rock. These albums led the way that rap would travel into the musical mainstream. Even though Run-D.M.C. dressed as if they came right off the street corner, this was not the case. Run and D.M.C came from middle class families, they were never deprived of anything and they never ran with a gang. One could never tell this by their dress or from the raps they made. Run-D.M.C. records were produced under the Def Jam label which had as one of its founders a Jewish punk rocker named Rick Rubin. Russell Simmons, Run’s brother, was to later take control of the Def Jam label in 1989, however this can not take away from the fact that this so-called militant rap group was at one time being produced by a white person. What is even more startling is that one of the most militant rap groups, Public Enemy, was also produced by Rick Rubin. Just as Run-D.M.C. came from middle-class families so did Public Enemy. Members of Public Enemy grew up in suburban Long Island towns with successful middle-class professional parents.
One can not deny that whites were starting to have an effect on the rap music that had originally begun in the black neighborhood. But this is to be expected any time an art form starts to gain popularity with mainstream white America. The same thing can happen with an art form that is popular with mainstream white America that all of a sudden becomes popular in a minority community. Students need to be aware of this fact and come to grips with this. Samuel David seems to be implying that with the influence of whites on the rap music scene that it is only a matter of time before rap starts to lose its popularity in the black community and that rap is on its way out. I strongly disagree with Mr. David on this point. I believe that rap music can withstand the influence of other (ethnic/social) groups and still remain popular and flourish. My following discussion of the role women are playing in the rap industry seems to substantiate my point of view.
Before concluding my unit, the role women are playing in the rap industry must be discussed. As rap music evolved and became popular, women tended to be the targets of male rap lyrics and generally were not portrayed in a favorable light. Rap music producers also seemed to be hesitant to produce female rap artists. David Thigpin in his article, “Not for Men Only; Women Rappers are Breaking the Mold with a Message of their Own”, offers two reasons for this reluctance. One being, rap producers were apprehensive about signing female rappers because they feared tampering with their proven formula of success of producing macho male rappers. The other being, rap producers did not feel that female voices could supply the requisite loudness and abrasiveness that they felt was a major feature of rap music.
Nothing can bring about change quicker than a financial success, especially in the music industry whose main motivating factor seems to be profit. A New York City female rap trio by the name of Salt ‘N’ Pepa would provide the rap music industry with the incentive to produce more female rappers with the success of its debut album, Hot, Cool, & Vicious, which sold over a million copies. Besides the fact that people like what they heard, Russell Simmons who was quoted in Thigpen’s article offers another explanation. Simmons stated, “There are more women buying rap records who would like to relate to women artists and there are more guys who want to hear a women’s point of view.”
With advent of female rappers also came new rap messages which transcended the boasting that was so common with male rappers. For example, Salt ‘N’ Pepper rapped over soul-tinged R&B melodies with teasing, street-savvy raps about maturity, independence from men, and sexual responsibility. Another female rapper, Monie Love, tried not to be too serious with her rap messages. While Queen Latifah raps were about women being optimistic and having pride in themselves and tended to counter male rappers’ lyrics which tended to express a poor opinion of women. However, there are some female rappers like BWP (Bytches with Problems) who voice a vengeful brand of radical black feminism. BWP’s raps dealt with such issues as date rape, male egos, and police brutality. BWP showed that they could be just as boastful as male rappers with their lyrics on the record ‘In We Want Money’ when they stated, “Marry you? Don’t make me laugh! Don’t you know, all I want is half!” Another female rapper who deserves mentioning because of her forceful attack on misogyny is Yo-Yo with her record ‘You Can’t Play with My Yo-Yo”. David Thigpen concluded his article on female rappers by stating that female rappers beside offering a different attitude, have shown that rap can be far more significant and flexible than its critics have admitted. This also illustrates, contrary to what David Samuels holds to be true, that rap music can endure the influence of groups other than its creators and still survive and flourish.
As already stated, rap music began in poor black neighborhood in New York City, the Bronx. It quickly spread from one major urban center to another where there was a large population of black people. Music on early rap records sounded like the black music of the day, which was heavy funk or more than often disco music. The basic function of rap music was to serve as dance music as did the Jamaican ‘toasting’ music from which it originated. One major criticism that the older generation has had about rap music centers on how it is very difficult to understand what the rapper is saying. David Samuels quotes Bill Stephney’s (Stepheny who is considered by many to be the smartest man in the rap business) reaction to first hearing rap music to address this point on how difficult it is to understand young rappers. Stephney said, “the point wasn’t rapping, it was rhythm, DJs cutting records left and right. It was the rappers role to match the intensity of the music rhythmically. No one knew what he was saying. He was just rocking the mike.” This serves to illustrate that one of the major attractions of rap music is the rhythm or the beat. I asked a middle school student while I was researching my unit if he always understood all the words in a rap record. He responded no. The student said that the beat of the record determines whether he likes the record or not. Maybe this can help explain why some rap records whose lyrics are racist or so violent in nature can be so popular. I intend on testing this theory in my class at this point in my unit by discussing some controversial rap artists and their records with my students. Two groups which come to mind are Public Enemy and N.W.A.
I have several recommendations concerning the teaching techniques which can be used to present the material found in my unit. Based on my teaching experience in the middle and high schools, I have learned that if you lecture to students for an entire period you will loose the attention of a majority of your students by the end of the period. Thus, lecturing should be limited to no more than 15 minutes and should be used to introduce some of the major aspects or objectives of my unit. (i.e. Jamaican music, ‘Hip Hop’ culture, graffiti, etc. . . .) Afterwhich, a discussion can occur on one of these particular aspects. Another alternative is to present students with excerpts from some of the material listed in the resource section of my unit. These excerpts can either be accompanied with a set of teacher-developed questions or related activities which will help emphasize some of the more important aspects of a particular objective, or students can be asked to develop their own questions from these excerpts. Also, rap records can be used as focal points for classroom discussions.
In addition, I intend on having my students do reports on individuals outlined in my unit who played influential roles in Jamaican and American rap music. Students will also be asked to do reports on the major aspects of the ‘Hip Hop’ culture. Finally, I would suggest that the films in the resource section of my unit be shown in order to highlight and discuss certain aspects of the ‘Hip Hop’ culture.
I have come to the conclusion that there can be no conclusion to my unit on the evolution of rap music in the United States because rap music is still in a state of evolution. There are areas that I have not even attempted to explore that rap music has begun to influence. For example, gospel music is one musical area in which they are beginning to produce their own rappers. Which leaves me to wonder how long it will be before other types of music in the United States such as country music embraces rap. In addition, I do not think that rap music can affect these other types of American music without somehow being itself affected by these different types of American music. There are two points I would like to make before I conclude my unit. One, I find it very ironic that even though rap music is a billion dollar a year business that both black and white local radio stations are still reluctant to play it for fear of loosing advertisers. These stations fail to take into account that rap music when it began was basically distributed through cassette recordings and has now grown to such a point that there are record companies that cater almost exclusively to rap music. Yet, when national advertisers wish to reach the 18-24 year old age group they will employ a rap artist. Second, in my opinion rap music is truly an American minority creation which deserves more credit and recognition as an art form rather than as a fad which should just fade away with time. Hopefully, my students will come to this same conclusion.
Lesson Plan #1
Pre-lesson activity:
Students will canvas a neighborhood looking for graffiti tag names or murals. Students should do this in small groups due to the fact that some neighborhoods that our students live in can be quite dangerous.**This lesson will occur after we have covered the section in my unit dealing with the graffiti aspect of the ‘Hip Hop’ culture.
Objective:
Students will create either a graffiti tag name or a graffiti mural on piece of construction paper.Materials:
Construction paper, magic markersProcedure:
After canvassing the neighborhood looking at graffiti tag names and murals, the class will discuss what they have observed. Afterwhich, each student will create their own graffiti tag name. Then students will have an opportunity to explain their tag name to the class. Then students will be shown graffiti murals of some renowned graffiti artists such as Lee Quinones and Keith Haring.Homework:
Students will be asked to create a graffiti mural of their own and be prepared to explain it to the class the next day.Lesson Plan #2
Objective:
Students will create their own purpose rap.Materials:
Each student will be asked to bring in a rap record.Procedure:
First we will discuss the different types of raps which exist (i.e. boast raps, insult raps, news raps, message raps, nonsense raps, and party raps.) Students will then be asked to provide examples of these types of raps from rappers that they know. Then we will play several rap records that have been brought in by the students. We will then classify these rap records into one of the categories we have discussed. Afterwhich students will be asked to create a rap with a purpose of their choosing.Homework:
Students will take home their raps and create a graffiti drawing to go along with their rap.Lesson Plan #3
Objective:
Students will write their impressions of some art work done by the graffiti artist of their choice.Material:
Art books containing the work of graffiti artist such as Lee Quionones and Keith Haring, construction paper, magic markers, crayons.Procedure:
I will bring in several art books containing the art work of several well known graffiti artists that were discussed in my unit and several artists that were not discussed in my unit. Students will choose two works of one particular artist and then recreate these drawings and write their impressions of these works of art.Teacher/Student Bibliography
Books
Hagar, Steven, “Hip Hop; The Illustrated History of Break Dancing, Rap Music, and Graffiti,” New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1984.
This book is an excellent source on the history of rap music that can be used by both teachers and students. It one of the few books that have been written on this subject.
Hebdige, Dick, “Cut ‘N’ Mix; Culture, Identity and Caribbean Music,” New York: Methuen & Co., 1987.
This book gives an excellent history on Caribbean and Jamaican music. This book also has an excellent chapter on the history of rap and hip hop.
Toop, David, “The Rap Attack; African Jive to New York Hip Hop;” Boston: South End Press, 1984.
Good source for the history of the early years of rap and the influence African music had on rap.
Magazine Articles/Newspaper Articles
Cooks, Jay and Koepp, Stephen, “Time”: “Chilling Out on Rap Flash;New city music brings out the last word in wild style”, March 21, 1983, U.S. Edition.
Good source for explaining some hip hop terminology and dress.
Hager, Steven, “Village Voice:” “Afrika Bambaataa’s Hip Hop”, September 21,1982.
Good source on one of Hip Hop’s leading spokesmen.
Samuels, David, “The New Republic”: “The Rap on Rap: the Black Music that Isn’t Either”, November 11, 1991.
Excellent source on the history of rap music. Must be edited before student use.
Simpson, Janice C., “Time”: “Yo! Rap Gets on the Map; Led by groups like Public Enemy”, February 5, 1990.
Good source for information on rap groups such as Run-D.M.C. and Public Enemy.
Thigpen, David, “Time”: “Not for Men; Women Rappers are Breaking the Mold with a Message of their Own”, May 27, 1991.
Good source on female rappers.
Films
“Wild Style” and “Beat Street” are two films which portray the Hip Hop culture.
Rap Records
Sugar Hill Gang, “Rapper’s Delight”, Sugar Hill Label, 1979.
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, “The Message”, Sugar Hill Label, 1982.Lightin’ Rod, “Hustler’s Convention”, United Artists, 1973.
The Incredible Bongo Band, “Apache”, Pride Records, date unknown.
Tom Tom Club, “Genius of Love”, Sire, 1982
Herbie Hancock, “Rockit”, CBS, 1983
AdSense 336x280June 30, 2006 at 12:26 am #592417
LucasDaDonParticipantHey Yow !!!!
You already know .Tha rap is PHAT and you ain’t gat nothin’ else to sayAdSense 336x280July 1, 2006 at 10:09 am #592460
Too IntegratedParticipantS.T. wrote:LOL….Music played by skilled musicians playing real instruments sounds better (when tracked and recorded properly) and has more texture than ANY combo of electronic equipment you could possibly conceive.Hahaha, but that ‘real live music’ should be recorded too at some point has it not ?? We’re talkin’ here from a ‘commercial’ perspective, you can’t have your band play live in every home of the world everytime people wanna hear that ‘better sounding song’, So my in my opinion your argument has no strength here.
S.T. wrote:If you are really the dedicated hip-hop producer you say you are…then you must have sampled at some point in time right?? Well, without the musicianship and dedication to the craft of music that created the source recordings IN THE FIRST PLACE then you’d have nothing and hip-hop’s ‘golden era’ LOL..would have never taken place at all.First, NO, I never sampled music to this point.. Second you say that if the source material wasn’t there in the first place, there was nothing and there wouldn’t be a ‘golden era’..
I’d like to ask you, what do you define as ‘the golden era of Hip-Hop??’ If anything comes close to the ‘golden era’ of Hip-Hop I think it is now.. With the introduction of "New School" beats the industry has changed dramatically..S.T. wrote:Besides…who said a record made by real musicians and songwriters has to be a top-seller??? That’s not the point.Forgive my impulsive reaction about musicians. On second thought I understand your point, and mine was pretty useless…
S.T. wrote:I’ll tell you what…a dedicated, skilled musician can perform with good bands for the rest of his days playing music in clubs, etc. without any wack promo, image, commericials, publicists, stylists, record sales, etc…that seems to define today’s ‘best’ music. LOL. Hip-hop producers will NEVER have that much flexibility in their careers…unless they actually learn to play an instrument.Whahahaha again, you’re not paying attention, its not about musicians who can play in clubs for the rest of their lives. That point you try to make utterly clear is of no significance.
Plus you never answered the question to the topic, you’re only trying to defend ‘real musicians’ and ‘the flexibility they have against Hip-Hop producers’ who as you say ‘actually don’t know how to play an instrument’ (which isn’t true offcourse)
You claim that Hip-Hop is your genre too, but you do not even know that most ‘reknown’ producers actually can play an instrument..AdSense 336x280July 4, 2006 at 9:57 pm #592590
A-PLAYParticipantHm..
sry but dont think that hip hop & rnb is the no.1 of music genres…
Think that all who her another genres think that their genre is the one..I dont think it can give the "no.1 genre"…
Ya know what I mean…
but Hip Hop & Rnb is one of the most heard, I think..AdSense 336x280July 5, 2006 at 4:10 am #592603
DJ_Patron(A-zona)ParticipantThis is an interesting topic,
but i guess we all have our opinions, Im not gonna say that any one who posted in this topic is wrong. But i will put in my 2 cents
Well heres my opinion that no one has covered yet.
I think, and agree with A-Play, hip-hop/rap Is NOT #1I dont understand why anyone would place rap/hip-hop in the same genre.
Rap is a style of music, just as country/jazz/rock/dance etc etc…
Hip Hop is a culture just as Christianity is a religion. It is a culture that millions of people live through. Understanding what these "so-called rappers" are trying to say, that is the Hip-Hop culture. Rap is a totally differnt subject, if anyone really listens to rap you will clearly see that its not the same music thats being played on the radio. Rap is a more hard core form of hip hop. Rappers get really nasty with rap, where as hip hop, its more of a feel good experience. People can relate to hip-hop, BUT people can also relate to country/jazz/etc etc… Thats not my point though. My point is Hip-Hop cultures can be found in almost every city/towns in America/World, the reason for this is because Hip-Hop lives off those people who dont have what they deserve, and might never get what they have always dreamed for. What im trying to say is that, if you’re a kid that grew up in the city dumps/ghetto, than most likely your music genre will be that of hip-hop. Same goes for if you were a kid that grew up in a nice neighborhood in deleware U.S., than your music genre might be something of rock or country what have you. Hip-Hop evolves from ghettos, it is formed in those areas of the world where you wouldnt find a luxory home. And those areas can be found almost everywhere on this planet.So this is my opinion
No one can say im wrong, cuz at the end of the day, your opinion wasnt corect either, lol, N E Wayz this is what i think about hip hop. I actually have familly in Belgium/Italy/France. And they say that hip-hop is a big hit there as well.Im not sure i said what i really wanted to
AdSense 336x280July 5, 2006 at 9:18 am #592623
s3androidParticipantugh.. hahaha.. being in electronic music I hear this all the time…. and a lot of you have hit good points and made the rants I would….
funny thing is tho.. who actaully listens.. I mean.. "listens" to the rap.. anytime I talk to some dood or chick and ask why they like the song.. it is cuz of the "beat" or is because they can dance to it…. why they can’t dance to dance music is beyond me.. but still… especially when no one is really listening to the dood rapping about $hit no one (meaning the ones buying the music) can relate to… like I care if he/she owns a yacht and mansion and has 60 b!tches rollin on whips .. HA
so be it.. it’s not going anywhere.. so I’ll just keep the transport locked in at 133bpm.
**oh. and I’m from Chicago.. now living in Arizona.. and that last statement is ridiculous… I mean.. some of the points are valid but the whole ghetto and where you live thing… jeez.. until recently.. Chicago was nothing but dance/house music.. radios .. clubs.. and Chicago has waaay more and bigger ghettos than AZ will ever fathom… but AZ has always been closed minded and embraced HipHop… listen to these stations… they put down dance music and take pride in never playing it… talk about culture. This is one reason why I hate the states… for being a melting pot and hodge podge of where we use to come from.. there is a lot of closed mindedness and lack of worldly visions.
take our redneck president for example.. sure he is a jamoke.. but look at all the people that "voted" him in. — that’s a whole other rant..
at the end of the day.. good music is good music.. whether it is 90 bpm or 140. If someone is rappin on it. singing or humming… a good tune is a good tune.. there are waaay too many critics and closed minded people and the whole hating one genre or another is lame. except country.. we can do without that sh!t.
AdSense 336x280July 5, 2006 at 10:49 am #592631
_JakeParticipantPeople like rap because its straight to the point, easy to understand and it varys so much that there is going to be a rapper/producer that you will like.. personally I prefere old skool rap and to the people who think rap producers have little musical ability take NWA as an example, Dr.Dre and Eazy-E knew how to play the piano and DJ Yella could play the drums.. I feel natural sounding beats sound way better anyways, too bad there is lack of them now
Rap is the same as any other music genre, there is skills involved and without those skills you won’t be able to go far
Also, during the 90s rap has slowly turned into a soap show, with pointless rappers hating each other and right now its got worse and more boring.. I guess people find all that entertaining though..
AdSense 336x280July 5, 2006 at 9:40 pm #592656
junoParticipantAfter reading the posts i’m seeing that alot of DJ’s & producers (the ppl that listen the music the most) hate the current state of mainstream hip hop – the reason’s the same with every music that gets played out.
Because….
[1] its current pop culture, so its considered "cool"
most of your friends wont give you a wierd look & be like "what are you listening to?" if you’re jammin to some new hip h[size size=75:7htkcdep](p)[/size:7htkcdep]op[2] its flashy – just like red cars, hot girls, fireworks, this bold text, you name it
[3] its packed with energy right now b/c there’s so many people doing it & so many people listening to it
[4] it sounds familiar
Hip Hop has absorbed influence from alot of other styles – its sound has become familiar by sampling & emulating funk, soul, rock, blues, breakbeat& basically whatever makes the girls dance in clubs will get played – bottom line
I noticed the rift in between Hip POP & Hip HOP started around the time that 2pac & Biggie were killed – everyone started trying to be the next big thing & it began to slowly murder the sound for a listener like myself. "Lemme hear ya say UHHN, NA NA NA NAH" no thanks, i’d rather throw-up on myself.
i hate the radio stations that play hip pop but its fine with me that they do. its much more enjoyable to me that TRUE HIP HOP still remains behind the scenes with groups/artists like Alias, Ugly Duckling, Blackalicious, Lyrics Born, 5 Deez, Soul Position….
its there you just have to search – personally i think a genre of rock will come up on another major breakthru in the next few years, then…oh yes….get ready for the supreme world of electronic music b*tches!!
AdSense 336x280July 5, 2006 at 9:45 pm #592659
junoParticipant_Jake wrote:Rap is the same as any other music genre, there is skills involved and without those skills you won’t be able to go farAgreed on one half but its so overly produced & hyped now that anyone could have a hit song on the top 10’s with the right help & right look. Thats when u know its POPular culture
_Jake wrote:Also, during the 90s rap has slowly turned into a soap show, with pointless rappers hating each other and right now its got worse and more boring.. I guess people find all that entertaining though..
Sounds just like WWF
AdSense 336x280July 6, 2006 at 3:10 am #592662
DJ_BradyParticipantI much prefer Indie music as the artists play their own instruments and their lyrics have a meaning to them, not just some new word that some black rapper guy makes up and builds a song of sped up old samples around it. I used to like hip hop a lot but now, 50 Cent for example is throwing out RUBBISH.
Like his latest song talks about being in a club or something and tellin some bitch to get yo body down or something…like nearly all of his songs / other hip hop songs that are similiar. No meaning.AdSense 336x280July 6, 2006 at 5:35 am #592665
XMTParticipant[size size=117:y7byw0ih]Because, rap/hip-hop is the music itself, you can play it for free (your only need is recording & mixing tools), anywhere anytime, with any instrument (or just your mouth), percussion, melody, vocal (singin’ or just "talkin").. in the streets, bathroom, livingroom.. no standard for making a beat, but surely it has to make your head noddin’, heart beatin’, and automatically move your body.. That’s why (in my opinion) rap/hip-hop is become so H.O.T. & popular..[/size:y7byw0ih]
AdSense 336x280July 6, 2006 at 5:50 pm #592697
Too IntegratedParticipant[quote quote="DJ_Brady":cw4do3tn]I used to like hip hop a lot but now, 50 Cent for example is throwing out RUBBISH.
Like his latest song talks about being in a club or something and tellin some bitch to get yo body down or something…like nearly all of his songs / other hip hop songs that are similiar. No meaning.[/quote:cw4do3tn]I find this so funny..
Check this out, you are talkin’ bout 50 Cent saying pointless stuff in a song. But you gotta keep in mind, firstly the type of song you are describing is most likely a club song. Now tell me why you should spit spritual meaningfull etc. kinda lyricz ??
A club song is made for one thing, and that is to get your ass stompin’ on tha floor. Simple as that.
You and I both know that there are enough songs with meaningfull lyricz..
Its such a stupid argument cuzz you could also say the same about ‘Dance Tracks’, most likely you’ll hear a beat that is being build-up, some dumbass chick or dude, saying some stupid stuff, to make the track sound more interesting. It makes no sense..
Secondly, you are forgetting that the (music)industry is a entertaining business, so what if 50 is talkin’ bout somekind of slut that has to back it up with her sweet lil’ass.. Who cares?? The beat keeps you bouncin’ tho, and you’re still enjoying yourself !!Know what I mean ??
AdSense 336x280July 7, 2006 at 7:24 am #592748
_JakeParticipantjuno wrote:[quote quote="_Jake":13vmxmev]Rap is the same as any other music genre, there is skills involved and without those skills you won’t be able to go farAgreed on one half but its so overly produced & hyped now that anyone could have a hit song on the top 10’s with the right help & right look. Thats when u know its POPular culture[/quote:13vmxmev]
Yeah that’s true but the artist won’t last 5 years, take 50 Cent for example, with Dr.Dre his album Get Rich.. did well but now without Dres help he has slipped into the rap wwf

[quote quote="juno":13vmxmev]
_Jake wrote:Also, during the 90s rap has slowly turned into a soap show, with pointless rappers hating each other and right now its got worse and more boring.. I guess people find all that entertaining though..
Sounds just like WWF
[/quote:13vmxmev]Yeah I don’t know which one is less entertaining
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