Front Page › Forums › AUDIO & TECHZONE › D.I.Y Acapellas › Comb-in on instrumental track phase inversion
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July 12, 2008 at 6:56 pm #546543
MaliceXParticipantJust a question. I’ve got a few instrumentals of songs that need acapellas ripped, but there are a few rather strange issues.
Firstly, the instrumental track at times seems to be shorter in length despite covering the entirety of the song; the speed difference is indiscernable to human perception.
Secondly, on attempt to phase-invert, because of the nature of microsecondal speed difference, the inversion would result to a combing-in effect on the resultant mix output. (Flanging effect)
What causes this to happen, if these are essentially the same song, in the recording process? (ie: Is it deliberate? If so, why does it happen only on some songs and not others?) Also, is there any way to perfectly eliminate this problem with some kind of method to sync the instrumental back into matched length? (smooth transition, meaning the speed changes should be smooth/linear.)
Songs:
Nana Mizuki – forgot the title… ??
t.A.T.u – All About Us
Garnet Crow – Flying
Several pop singles.AdSense 336x280July 12, 2008 at 6:56 pm #653354
MaliceXParticipantJust a question. I’ve got a few instrumentals of songs that need acapellas ripped, but there are a few rather strange issues.
Firstly, the instrumental track at times seems to be shorter in length despite covering the entirety of the song; the speed difference is indiscernable to human perception.
Secondly, on attempt to phase-invert, because of the nature of microsecondal speed difference, the inversion would result to a combing-in effect on the resultant mix output. (Flanging effect)
What causes this to happen, if these are essentially the same song, in the recording process? (ie: Is it deliberate? If so, why does it happen only on some songs and not others?) Also, is there any way to perfectly eliminate this problem with some kind of method to sync the instrumental back into matched length? (smooth transition, meaning the speed changes should be smooth/linear.)
Songs:
Nana Mizuki – forgot the title… ??
t.A.T.u – All About Us
Garnet Crow – Flying
Several pop singles.AdSense 336x280July 12, 2008 at 11:35 pm #653379
ChunkyEatsMyDinnerParticipantYeah, that has been talked about a couple of times before. Ive also noticed it myself before.
The only guess we have is its done by the studio to specifically stop a DIY being created.
Timestretching again would alter the waveform further and lessen the results
Pitch shift would slightly change the tone.
I had one idea of periodically cutting the acapella in between words then any glitches
on the bounce/ export could be cut out.
I havnt tried it out yet tho.AdSense 336x280July 13, 2008 at 3:27 pm #653413
MaliceXParticipantI was hoping there was like a way for a wave utility to surface, that could evenly omit a single sample *in waveform terms* per number of samples after it, where the sample block size pattern determines the resultant time. (smaller block size, more single samples omitted, and much shorter total time. Maximum possible would end up to be exactly half the original length)
BTW. I’ve tried something like you said in ACID, where I manually determined the exact instance where both the instrumental and original song were simultaneous in song position (as well as waveform position), then used the beatmapper on ACID to sync both to tempo. Results? It helps but it brings up more unpredictabilities in terms of the nature of the waveforms cancelling each other out, and when. (Algorithm issues; they seem to act very arbitrary as opposed to a uniform pattern of omitting samples.) Doing so manually, without beatmapping, is too time consuming. There needs to be a utility that can sorta do that sort of thing (a bit like Sound Forge’s gapper/stutter effect, only you can actually get it to go right on time.)
AdSense 336x280July 13, 2008 at 4:10 pm #653414
ChunkyEatsMyDinnerParticipantIve never used the beat mapper so cant comment.
Im afraid I cant think of anything else at this time.
We have some DIYers here, hopefully they can suggest something.
(I understand the science behind the theory but have only ever created
1 straight forward pella and instu DIY for fun so lack in practice).AdSense 336x280December 6, 2008 at 9:13 am #660293
MAXMILLIONAIREParticipantthe reason behind the flanging effect is because the 2 sounds aren’t yet properly aligned. as the flange reaches its peak you will notice the beat diminish , when u have acheived this you are closer to getting your diy.
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