The Acapella Resource
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Well, Live is so flexible, there are numerous ways you could Dj with it... but they all focus around "warping" your tracks. To cut straight to the point, you place warp markers on your tracks inside Live to create a time-code (BPM) for Live to reference to on that track (This is all done beforehand). Once you're playing a set, you simply trigger the tracks when you need to & Live will play the tracks according to your Master Tempo. 95% of Live is controllable via MIDI signals, and thus you can use any MIDI controller/keyboard that suits you & don't have to stick to one particulair brand or company... The fact that beat-matching has been removed from the Live deejaying equation might sound like cheating, however, i find it rather refreshing due to the non-linear way of playing your music... It allows endless looping, slicing, dicing & re-editing on the fly... meaining no 2 sets will ever sound the same again!!!! Add the powerfull looping/effects tools available to a decent Keyboard or a Microphone plugged straight into Live & *SHAAAAZAAAAAM*.... You've got a mini-electronica band going!!!! 
Hope this answers your question... If you'd like a more technical explination of how it all comes together, i could try give you a run-down on that too????
Totally agreed with you there Milkman Dan. To anyone suggesting using Live for Dj'ing is 'cheating' - well frankly to any suggestion like that I'd day - well any muppet should be able to beatmatch! Using Live transforms your dj sets to the upper echelons.. also blurring the lines between dj and producer.. it's all about enhancing your creativity. Apart from anything else it's just bloody good fun rather than just simply standing there headnodding away for an hour or 2 and simply waiting for your 1 min of glory between the mixers' crossfader. That's my tuppence anyway! 50 Free Beastie Boys Acapellas Please RETWEET and FACEBOOK the link below:
acapella wrote:
ohh u have no idea how much u r right!!!!!! beatmatch takes what? 30sec, 1min? this sound very cool!! to bring your own sounds and creativity to your set and not just crossfading the tracks in some way it brings you to a whole new level as a DJ. the beatmatch still sounds to me like a bit of cheating but it sounds to me like you have enough things to do with the ableton. I also like what Milkman Dan wrote
But how does the playlist work if u work only with ableton? Do you need a hardrive for each computer or it has a way to connect ur drive to both?
Not at all my friend... Live works off 1 machine only... What you need is a soundcard with multiple outputs (there are many available options depending on your laptop's connections, what kind of inputs you'll need &/or how much you're willing to spend...), for eg: I have an M-Audio Firewire Audiophile which suits my needs perfectly. Live allows you to specifiy where you want your Audio to go to... ie: the multiple outputs on your soundcard... So, you just set your cue line to 1 set of outputs, and your master to another... That way, you can preview tracks/loops/whatever in Live's browser or on the arrangement view without it going to your master output (just like on a normal mixer)!!!!! The real genius comes in with Live's audio processing capabilities (which IMHO have been a little shaky with the release of 5, but it looks like will be as rock solid as 4 was with the 5.2 update!!). Live allows you to assign any "track" to any side of your fader... or to no side at at all... meaning you can be playing as many tracks (in theory up to 32) as you like simultaneously... all synced to your master tempo!!!!! - Which is the whole point really... If you were to use Live as a "standard" deejay tool, mixing between 1 track and another, then yes, it would be cheating... even criminal. The debate on whether using computer-software to deejay is cheating will go on for a long time still... Personally, i learned to mix on a pair of 1200's and i would suggest for anybody starting to deejay to do the same (or similair with CDJ's nowadays). However, the complete control & creativity that Live gives me has completley re-invigourated my deejaying.... I choose what beat goes where, when i want my bassline to drop, how i want my break-downs to happen etc... At the end of the day, it's all about the music that comes out the speakers... Live just allows me to control that sound to the nth degree & be completely spontaneous at the same time.... Anyway, hope that clears things up for ya... gimme a shout if you get stuck and i'll try clear any other issues you have without rambling on like i have here... 
I have recently been introduced to mixing using ableton by the man like acapella himself ! Being from a vinyl dj ing background I have to say that initially I had my reservations all of which have now been laid to rest.
Mixing in live WICKED and I personally find it a lot more gratifying than doing a vinyl/cd dj mix. The fact that you can re-hash your own tunes and also use your own productions as part of the mix makes it a highly creative and rewarding experience. Like someone's already mentioned any sucker can beat match these days so the argument that mixing in live is 'easy' really doesn't wash with me. Hey dj's if you wanna do something real tricky then try learning to play a real instrument (1210's dont count!!!!!!!) Check out mixes like "too many dj's" and "the nextmen - personal golf instructions" - I recon a lot of this stuff is done in live (or something similar) and check the results they're fantastic. Big up the live mixers out there - let's keep pushing things forward !!
Milkman Dan wrote:
I know that are a few DJs that work with ableton with 2 or 3 laptops i always thought that its insted of CD/Turntable.
You can choose when u want the bassline to drop when ur producing live but can u do it when playing a track? i know u can tweak it and all but too completly drop the bassline? can Live saperate the sounds that well? Im also a little scared from the fact that the computer can get stuck, i have a friend that works with Final scratch and i went with him to the club where he works and in the middle of the party one side just stop playing and he continued to play with CDs while restarting the computer but if he would relay on the computer and brought CDs with him he would be stuck
Yeah, there are ways of using 2 or 3 laptops running Live/Serato/Final Scratch or a mixture of them all... which, like any setup, has it's pros and cons. It would allow for greater expansion on loops, songs & inputs... but would be very complex for one person to control (nevermind to sync up). I would suggest getting to grips with Live on 1 laptop before making the jump to 2. Also, the cost of a 2nd really decent laptop in comparison to all the equipment &/or MIDI controllers you could buy instead is my reason for sticking to 1 laptop for the moment!!!!
Well, yes & no!!! Live cant seperate sound from the track, in fact, Live is a completely non-wave-destructive program. However, if you get to grips with the program enough, you can have complete control over your music!!! For eg: When i cue up my next track whilst deejaying, as a rule of thumb, i do the following 1) Drop the song 5 times onto 5 seperate layers on 1 track. 2) Ensure that looping is set on all of them 3) Make the first song my intro loop part 4) Make the second song my intial drop loop of the track 5) Make the third song my breakdown loop 6) Make the fourth the main part of my track 7) Make the fifth part my outro loop. This may sound like a lot of work, but remember you don't have to beatmatch any of these if you've warped you tracks correctly beforehand. Anyway, this little trick, combined with various other beat-loops, acapellas & my own soft-synth keys allow me to have near-complete control over what sound i want to play & when i want to play it!!!!
At the end of the day, computers are computers & they will crash regardless of anything!!! Not that that should deter you in any way... If you have/buy a really decent laptop, with plenty of processing power, decent RAM & Hard Drive space... you're already one step ahead. On top of that, don't try overload Live with too many plugins & effex chains whilst deejaying... the CPU meter in the top right habd corner is there for a reason... If you constantly topping over 75%, you are in danger territory 
However, that is not to say to be over-cautious with Live (it seems to hold up pretty well with anything i can throw at it)... all i'm saying is don't go dropping a 14 piece reverb-effex-chain on a track whilst in the middle of mixing a complex set of loops with EQ's and beat-repeats aleady attached... Well, anyway, that's Milkman Dan's 17-step guide to "How-To-Use-Live-Properly" & it seems to work just fine for me (no crashes yet )
At the end of the day, Live is a great tool (for deejaying, performing & for production), but a "tool" nevertheless... Even though Live has become my main musical platform, I still take CD's along to my gigs (as a back-up & in case i need the bathroom!!!!), and recently a few vinyls for nostalgic reasons. The main part of deejaying is to have fun doing it... no matter what you're using!!! /and breathe
Projectmix is a great desk, but is very bulky to be carrying around to gigs... it's more designed around production with ProTools (but would work with Live just fine i think)... Personally, I have the UC-33e & i'm pretty happy with the control it gives me.... Can't really speak for others??? There are numerous choices though... such as the Faderfox units (which i'm considering) http://www.faderfox.de/ the new Allen & Heath Xone 3D (which i'm drooling over) http://www.xone.co.uk/3d.htm & the ultimate in mixing technology... the JazzMutant Lemur (which i simply have wet dreams about  ) http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemur_overview.php
Lemur looks smashing - how inovative.
NAMM '06 preview vid of the XONE 3d here if anyone's interested. 50 Free Beastie Boys Acapellas Please RETWEET and FACEBOOK the link below:
Milkman Dan wrote:
So its only a question of expirience but the idea is u can do everithing with everything depend on your skill.
I only know this one and its wicked!!! The whole Live scene hasnt got to where i live so controller and stuff like that arent available yet here, but in time i believe live will be attached to every DJ like cds and vinyl was untill now. Ive understood the idea of Live but when i hear my music it hard for me to think of something that i would actually want to change in it so i was wondering if someone could ul for me a small exemple of something he did, something like a before and after. Stomper. Re: Using Ableton Live live
Hi Dan, sorry for my late answer. It took me half an year from reading the first post on midibox.org to fixing the last screw on my controller. The costs depend on how much quality components (e.g. knobs, faders and especially the frontpanel!) you use. In sum this one gets along with about 500 EUR. Yes this isn´t really cheap for building up with your own hands. The most expensive part was the front panel. But my thought was - if I build up my own box it should exactly look like i want it to be. And it does! The problem on the available controlers from m-audio, logic, behringer, mackie etc. - the really don´t fit all needs you have on playing around with live. You won´t find such a box on the market by now i guess. My soundcards on a sony vaio are Hammerfall DSP with Multiface or for live-gigs I use the new scratchamp from stanton (finalscratch 2). This now supports midi i/o and works fine. To all others that are discussing about how real djing with any computer software is: Just check out the feedback you get from the audience! If you master your thing they will give a f*** how you make them bouncing! Personally I learned djing by myself since 1996 and now searched for a tool to get more flexible in a live setup. I got a DJ-friend on the 1210 with me when i perform so that there is a nice mixture of sound. Anyhow you should not discuss but do your thing! Greetz, Lide
i'm a big Live fan and have been for about 7 or 8 months now. mostly use it for production stuff at home but recently have been using it for my demo mixes. have not yet used it in a live set due to not owning a laptop.
agree 100% with all the Ableton/Software enthusiasts. I learnt to DJ the traditional way (2 x SL1200's) but the things you can do nowadays with software are mind blowing. Like someone wisely said a few posts back "any monkey can beat match".
Hi Ableton jockeys
Well, I didn´t make a switch from nothing because I never had the money to buy TT´s and feed a vinyl addiction, but Ableton Live and sites like Beatport have changed all that for me! So I bought 2 Behringer controllers (a BCR2000 and a BCN44) and for the past 6 months I´ve been making some mixes. Here´s links to my two most recent mixes, I like to say I play progressive electro-tech-house : Nuno M - Vapor Transmissions (24-05-2006) Link : http://www.sendspace.com/file/ouux6n Tracklist : Orgy - Vapor Transmission (Elementree) Robert Babicz - Markatech (Original Mix) (Audiomatique) Trentemoller - Nam Nam (Poker Flat) Kenny Leaven - Wasabi (Traum) Jack Kilby - Neutronium (Original Mix) (64 Records) Tiefschwarz - Damage (MANDY Dub Mix) (Fine Records) Jacek Sienkiewicz - Untitled 1 (Nuno M Edit of Original Mix) (Recognition) Cosmic Sandwich - Man In A Box (Patrick Chardronnet Remix) (MBF) Nutrunner - Open Spaces (Oliver Koletzki´s Ellen James Mix) (Silver Planet) Alexander Maier, DJ Allstar - E M O (Kleinkariert Mix) (Exun Records) Sascha Funke - In Between Days (Original Mix) (Bpitch Control) Marc O´Tool - Pink Is The New Black (Electribe) Gui Boratto - U-Bahn (Original Mix) (Audiomatique) Blackstrobe - Last Club On Earth (Arnaud Rebotini Remix) (Crosstown Rebels) Blackstrobe - n**i Trance f**ck Off (Holden Remix) (Crosstown Rebels) w/ Holden & Thompson - Come To Me (Club Mix) acapella (Skint/Loaded) and another one : Nuno M - For My Son (05-05-2006) link : http://www.sendspace.com/file/j8fhub Tracklist : Booka Shade - Mandarine Girl (Konrad Troy Hearthrob Remix) Ben Klock - Point-Blank Troy Pierce - 25 Bitches (Gaiser´s Too Many Bitches Mix) Oliver Moldan - Phat Laces Oliver Koletzki - Da Bleibt Er Ganz Cool (Original Mix) Thomas Schumacher - Red Purple (Original Mix) Luke Dzierzek - Echo (John Dahlback Remix) Johannes Heil - All For One Fairmont - Gazelle Ame - Rej Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Umek´s Astrodisco Remix) Akabu - Phuture Bound (Ame Remix) Sono - Whatever (Martinez Remix) Kirk DeGiorgio, Esoterik - Starwaves (Spirit Catcher Time Modulator Remix) Facundo Mohrr - To Catch Me (Original Mix) Ellen Allien and Apparat - Jet BTW, if there´s a more appropriate place to post mixes around here, please point me in the right direction dj mix showcase section - to be or not to be?
Hey Joe.. This exact issue of acas4u NOT having a place dedicated for showcasing live mixes was discussed recently actually (can't remember where now though). We've still yet to come to a conclusion wether we SHOULD have a dj mix showcase section or not... perhaps a poll is required.. get back to you on that. acapella 50 Free Beastie Boys Acapellas Please RETWEET and FACEBOOK the link below:
New member here... 1st post in the general forums. woo-hoo!!:D Anyway, i just switched from traktor to live, and it's awesome. I'm still getting used to the software, and just starting the long process of warping the beats on my mp3s.
What's the common practice out there... do people fix the beatgrid on their tracks before they play it out, or is Live's beatmatching algorithm solid enough to figure it out on the fly? I know that it's _much_ better than Traktors. Nice to meet ya'll, cheers.
i actuall prefer ableton live as a dejaying toll as compared to a production tool. i do not understand how to properly use it as a production tool which doesnt help. i think it all comes down to preference. my favrotie dj software is tracktor
I use live in conjunction with protools and reason for my production needs but I've only recently started playing out with it. I've been spinning for over 20 years and I gotta say to the purists out there that it enables me to do all of the things I've wanted to do in the booth that were hazardous or impossible to do before. What would take me three CDJ's or 1200's, a cycloops and fx box i can now just do in software RELIABLY. One thing you have to remember about being a DJ, it's not about you, it's about moving the crowd. Nothing kills a floor faster than a trainwreck and not necessarily because of lack of skills, but because of a bad CD, a record with a skip or generally a less than stellar setup. With live I know my equipment is up to par and I can pull off a live remix without skipping a beat every time. Just like a lot of you out there, I can beat match, juggle and scratch in my sleep. The challange there is gone. I really think this is the future of DJ'ing.
My only gripe is the sound quality, which to me is paramount. On big stretches or files with a lot of warp markers you can hear the artifacts of the algorithms. Maybe not a big deal on an OK system, but on a really clean system it really bugs the hell out of me. The crowd doesn't seem to notice though so i guess it's acceptable for now.
I tried Live as a performance tool, but eventually gave up as it wasnt spontaneous enough for me. I got frustrated being locked into such a rigid grid. The kind of music I play is so varied it didnt suit, so I burn all my Live edits onto CD and play them using Pioneer CDJ1000s.
OKAY i got ableton live lite with my mbox2 - should i install it? is it good?!!
can someone sum up what it is useful for?
A live thread! I tell you what, live till I die. Honestly, great program. I use it for production from start to finish. Ableton was the best move I've ever made. I'd never really taken an interest in it up until about 4 months ago. Ableton is serious, yet puts the fun back into production, which for me.....pretty much makes producing fun =p (sorry if this don't fit, but it had to be said) hehe
Re: dj mix showcase section - to be or not to be?
Hi acapella just a lil' memo to see if a poll is still on your "things to do" list 
I DJ in Live. I started using it for production a while back, and then started doing remixes in it, and then started doing remixes with it live, and then realized that I might as well just try doing a DJ set with it. I partnered up with a friend of mine who has much more traditional DJ experience, and our skill sets compliment really well. I know Live inside and out, and he's got much better DJ intuition.
In short, I think Live's great for DJing (although I've never DJed with anything else, so what do I know?), but I really think it's great for anything else, too.
Great thread!! I just got Live and I'm learning when time allows.
Can someone please confirm this for me: I'm on a laptop so if I want to seperate, say 4, Live audio tracks and feed them into 4 channels of my mixer I need a FW or USB soundcard with 4 outs, right? (I read on this thread that M-Audio do one?) Then, if I want to actually control faders in Live using MIDI, I'll need a MIDI controller or a DJ mixer with MIDI I/O? Do some mixers have soundcards in them, have I read that somewhere? Is there that one piece of kit that would plug into my Lappy and take seperate tracks through to it's channels while also sending MIDI for control of the Software? Are we talking that A&H Xone thing or DJM800? If we are then I'm dreaming ... don't have those $$'s yet.  But I'm still having fun with just the software.
Edit: I think I answered my question. There is no single piece of kit that performs both functions -external soundcard for seperating Live's tracks & Midi-capable mixer for standard mixing + SW control. Seems the 'standard' is M-Audio's 'FW Audiophile' for the soundcard part which would feed the 4 channels of whatever mixer I want, midi or not. Chat soon y'all Flex
I have a friend with a Novation Synth that is a hardware synth, MIDI controller and a soundcard all in one, think it's called the X-Station and in theory it could do all of the above and more.
To answer the main post I'm a live user, have been ever since I saw Kid606 laying the smack down in a grimy theatre in Glasgow. I use it with my Windows based Laptop, M-Audio FX410, M-Audio Radium49 keyboard and NI Kore. Iuse it as a host for Reaktor and Reason too but Live is my main composition tool. While I'd consider myself a producer I wouldn't call live DJing, there's no discs involved! But that's just semantics really, it's all art in the end.
Ableton is something am hoping to get the hang of. Ever since a noticed the production world is bigger than Acid Pro lol!
Good thread to start. Loads of good info in the replies! Peace
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that is the business right there... 
