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stomper
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| Arh baby, ACAS4U's gotta hold on me. |
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| Does anyone that can explain to me how does it work for DJ? |
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Milkman Dan
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| stomper wrote: |
| Does anyone that can explain to me how does it work for DJ? |
Well, Live is so flexible, there are numerous ways you could Dj with it... but they all focus around "warping" your tracks.
To cut straight to the point, you place warp markers on your tracks inside Live to create a time-code (BPM) for Live to reference to on that track (This is all done beforehand).
Once you're playing a set, you simply trigger the tracks when you need to & Live will play the tracks according to your Master Tempo. 95% of Live is controllable via MIDI signals, and thus you can use any MIDI controller/keyboard that suits you & don't have to stick to one particulair brand or company...
The fact that beat-matching has been removed from the Live deejaying equation might sound like cheating, however, i find it rather refreshing due to the non-linear way of playing your music... It allows endless looping, slicing, dicing & re-editing on the fly... meaining no 2 sets will ever sound the same again!!!! Add the powerfull looping/effects tools available to a decent Keyboard or a Microphone plugged straight into Live & *SHAAAAZAAAAAM*....
You've got a mini-electronica band going!!!! 
Hope this answers your question... If you'd like a more technical explination of how it all comes together, i could try give you a run-down on that too???? |
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| Milkman Dan wrote: |
| stomper wrote: |
| Does anyone that can explain to me how does it work for DJ? |
The fact that beat-matching has been removed from the Live deejaying equation might sound like cheating, however, i find it rather refreshing due to the non-linear way of playing your music... It allows endless looping, slicing, dicing & re-editing on the fly... meaining no 2 sets will ever sound the same again!!!! Add the powerfull looping/effects tools available to a decent Keyboard or a Microphone plugged straight into Live & *SHAAAAZAAAAAM*....
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Totally agreed with you there Milkman Dan.
To anyone suggesting using Live for Dj'ing is 'cheating' - well frankly to any suggestion like that I'd day - well any muppet should be able to beatmatch!
Using Live transforms your dj sets to the upper echelons.. also blurring the lines between dj and producer.. it's all about enhancing your creativity.
Apart from anything else it's just bloody good fun rather than just simply standing there headnodding away for an hour or 2 and simply waiting for your 1 min of glory between the mixers' crossfader.
That's my tuppence anyway! |
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stomper
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| Arh baby, ACAS4U's gotta hold on me. |
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acapella wrote:
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Apart from anything else it's just bloody good fun rather than just simply standing there headnodding away for an hour or 2 and simply waiting for your 1 min of glory between the mixers' crossfader.
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ohh u have no idea how much u r right!!!!!!
beatmatch takes what? 30sec, 1min?
this sound very cool!! to bring your own sounds and creativity to your set and not just crossfading the tracks in some way it brings you to a whole new level as a DJ.
the beatmatch still sounds to me like a bit of cheating but it sounds to me like you have enough things to do with the ableton. I also like what Milkman Dan wrote
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| meaining no 2 sets will ever sound the same again!!!! |
But how does the playlist work if u work only with ableton?
Do you need a hardrive for each computer or it has a way to connect ur drive to both? |
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Milkman Dan
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| stomper wrote: |
But how does the playlist work if u work only with ableton?
Do you need a hardrive for each computer or it has a way to connect ur drive to both? |
Not at all my friend... Live works off 1 machine only... What you need is a soundcard with multiple outputs (there are many available options depending on your laptop's connections, what kind of inputs you'll need &/or how much you're willing to spend...), for eg: I have an M-Audio Firewire Audiophile which suits my needs perfectly.
Live allows you to specifiy where you want your Audio to go to... ie: the multiple outputs on your soundcard... So, you just set your cue line to 1 set of outputs, and your master to another... That way, you can preview tracks/loops/whatever in Live's browser or on the arrangement view without it going to your master output (just like on a normal mixer)!!!!!
The real genius comes in with Live's audio processing capabilities (which IMHO have been a little shaky with the release of 5, but it looks like will be as rock solid as 4 was with the 5.2 update!!). Live allows you to assign any "track" to any side of your fader... or to no side at at all... meaning you can be playing as many tracks (in theory up to 32) as you like simultaneously... all synced to your master tempo!!!!! - Which is the whole point really... If you were to use Live as a "standard" deejay tool, mixing between 1 track and another, then yes, it would be cheating... even criminal.
The debate on whether using computer-software to deejay is cheating will go on for a long time still... Personally, i learned to mix on a pair of 1200's and i would suggest for anybody starting to deejay to do the same (or similair with CDJ's nowadays).
However, the complete control & creativity that Live gives me has completley re-invigourated my deejaying.... I choose what beat goes where, when i want my bassline to drop, how i want my break-downs to happen etc... At the end of the day, it's all about the music that comes out the speakers... Live just allows me to control that sound to the nth degree & be completely spontaneous at the same time....
Anyway, hope that clears things up for ya... gimme a shout if you get stuck and i'll try clear any other issues you have without rambling on like i have here...  |
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I have recently been introduced to mixing using ableton by the man like acapella himself ! Being from a vinyl dj ing background I have to say that initially I had my reservations all of which have now been laid to rest.
Mixing in live WICKED and I personally find it a lot more gratifying than doing a vinyl/cd dj mix.
The fact that you can re-hash your own tunes and also use your own productions as part of the mix makes it a highly creative and rewarding experience. Like someone's already mentioned any sucker can beat match these days so the argument that mixing in live is 'easy' really doesn't wash with me. Hey dj's if you wanna do something real tricky then try learning to play a real instrument (1210's dont count!!!!!!!)
Check out mixes like "too many dj's" and "the nextmen - personal golf instructions" - I recon a lot of this stuff is done in live (or something similar) and check the results they're fantastic.
Big up the live mixers out there - let's keep pushing things forward !! |
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subtonic
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| Im getin it soon what controler do ya think i should get is projectmix also good for the DJ side of things ? |
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stomper
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| Arh baby, ACAS4U's gotta hold on me. |
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Milkman Dan wrote:
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Not at all my friend... Live works off 1 machine only... What you need is a soundcard with multiple outputs (there are many available options depending on your laptop's connections, what kind of inputs you'll need &/or how much you're willing to spend...), for eg: I have an M-Audio Firewire Audiophile which suits my needs perfectly.
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I know that are a few DJs that work with ableton with 2 or 3 laptops i always thought that its insted of CD/Turntable.
| Quote: |
However, the complete control & creativity that Live gives me has completley re-invigourated my deejaying.... I choose what beat goes where, when i want my bassline to drop, how i want my break-downs to happen etc... At the end of the day, it's all about the music that comes out the speakers... Live just allows me to control that sound to the nth degree & be completely spontaneous at the same time....
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You can choose when u want the bassline to drop when ur producing live but can u do it when playing a track? i know u can tweak it and all but too completly drop the bassline? can Live saperate the sounds that well?
Im also a little scared from the fact that the computer can get stuck, i have a friend that works with Final scratch and i went with him to the club where he works and in the middle of the party one side just stop playing and he continued to play with CDs while restarting the computer but if he would relay on the computer and brought CDs with him he would be stuck |
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Milkman Dan
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| No longer the Rookie |
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| stomper wrote: |
| I know that are a few DJs that work with ableton with 2 or 3 laptops i always thought that its insted of CD/Turntable. |
Yeah, there are ways of using 2 or 3 laptops running Live/Serato/Final Scratch or a mixture of them all... which, like any setup, has it's pros and cons. It would allow for greater expansion on loops, songs & inputs... but would be very complex for one person to control (nevermind to sync up). I would suggest getting to grips with Live on 1 laptop before making the jump to 2.
Also, the cost of a 2nd really decent laptop in comparison to all the equipment &/or MIDI controllers you could buy instead is my reason for sticking to 1 laptop for the moment!!!!
| stomper wrote: |
| You can choose when u want the bassline to drop when ur producing live but can u do it when playing a track? i know u can tweak it and all but too completly drop the bassline? can Live saperate the sounds that well? |
Well, yes & no!!! Live cant seperate sound from the track, in fact, Live is a completely non-wave-destructive program. However, if you get to grips with the program enough, you can have complete control over your music!!! For eg: When i cue up my next track whilst deejaying, as a rule of thumb, i do the following
1) Drop the song 5 times onto 5 seperate layers on 1 track.
2) Ensure that looping is set on all of them
3) Make the first song my intro loop part
4) Make the second song my intial drop loop of the track
5) Make the third song my breakdown loop
6) Make the fourth the main part of my track
7) Make the fifth part my outro loop.
This may sound like a lot of work, but remember you don't have to beatmatch any of these if you've warped you tracks correctly beforehand. Anyway, this little trick, combined with various other beat-loops, acapellas & my own soft-synth keys allow me to have near-complete control over what sound i want to play & when i want to play it!!!!
| stomper wrote: |
| Im also a little scared from the fact that the computer can get stuck, i have a friend that works with Final scratch and i went with him to the club where he works and in the middle of the party one side just stop playing and he continued to play with CDs while restarting the computer but if he would relay on the computer and brought CDs with him he would be stuck |
At the end of the day, computers are computers & they will crash regardless of anything!!! Not that that should deter you in any way... If you have/buy a really decent laptop, with plenty of processing power, decent RAM & Hard Drive space... you're already one step ahead. On top of that, don't try overload Live with too many plugins & effex chains whilst deejaying... the CPU meter in the top right habd corner is there for a reason... If you constantly topping over 75%, you are in danger territory 
However, that is not to say to be over-cautious with Live (it seems to hold up pretty well with anything i can throw at it)... all i'm saying is don't go dropping a 14 piece reverb-effex-chain on a track whilst in the middle of mixing a complex set of loops with EQ's and beat-repeats aleady attached...
Well, anyway, that's Milkman Dan's 17-step guide to "How-To-Use-Live-Properly" & it seems to work just fine for me (no crashes yet )
At the end of the day, Live is a great tool (for deejaying, performing & for production), but a "tool" nevertheless... Even though Live has become my main musical platform, I still take CD's along to my gigs (as a back-up & in case i need the bathroom!!!!), and recently a few vinyls for nostalgic reasons. The main part of deejaying is to have fun doing it... no matter what you're using!!!
/and breathe |
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Milkman Dan
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| No longer the Rookie |
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| subtonic wrote: |
| Im getin it soon what controler do ya think i should get is projectmix also good for the DJ side of things ? |
Projectmix is a great desk, but is very bulky to be carrying around to gigs... it's more designed around production with ProTools (but would work with Live just fine i think)... Personally, I have the UC-33e & i'm pretty happy with the control it gives me.... Can't really speak for others???
There are numerous choices though... such as
the Faderfox units (which i'm considering) http://www.faderfox.de/
the new Allen & Heath Xone 3D (which i'm drooling over) http://www.xone.co.uk/3d.htm
& the ultimate in mixing technology...
the JazzMutant Lemur (which i simply have wet dreams about  ) http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemur_overview.php |
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stomper
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| Arh baby, ACAS4U's gotta hold on me. |
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Milkman Dan wrote:
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| Well, yes & no!!! Live cant seperate sound from the track, in fact, Live is a completely non-wave-destructive program. However, if you get to grips with the program enough, you can have complete control over your music!!! |
So its only a question of expirience but the idea is u can do everithing with everything depend on your skill.
I only know this one and its wicked!!!
The whole Live scene hasnt got to where i live so controller and stuff like that arent available yet here, but in time i believe live will be attached to every DJ like cds and vinyl was untill now.
Ive understood the idea of Live but when i hear my music it hard for me to think of something that i would actually want to change in it so i was wondering if someone could ul for me a small exemple of something he did, something like a before and after.
Stomper. |
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Last edited by stomper on Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lide01
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| Milkman Dan wrote: |
DAAAAAAAAM Son...  that is the business right there...
If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take you build that controller & what are the main expenses????
I've been using Live for a little over 8 months now & just started to incorporate it into my deejaying with an UC-33e & a Trigger Finger.... but that is an adaptation on what i would really like to do... which is have total control one one midi output which will help me start performing my own stuff live....
BTW... what kind of sound cards are you guys using... I'm on the Audiophile FireWire... but wanted to get some feedback on what others are using.... |
Hi Dan,
sorry for my late answer. It took me half an year from reading the first post on midibox.org to fixing the last screw on my controller. The costs depend on how much quality components (e.g. knobs, faders and especially the frontpanel!) you use. In sum this one gets along with about 500 EUR. Yes this isnīt really cheap for building up with your own hands. The most expensive part was the front panel. But my thought was - if I build up my own box it should exactly look like i want it to be. And it does!
The problem on the available controlers from m-audio, logic, behringer, mackie etc. - the really donīt fit all needs you have on playing around with live. You wonīt find such a box on the market by now i guess.
My soundcards on a sony vaio are Hammerfall DSP with Multiface or for live-gigs I use the new scratchamp from stanton (finalscratch 2). This now supports midi i/o and works fine.
To all others that are discussing about how real djing with any computer software is: Just check out the feedback you get from the audience! If you master your thing they will give a f*** how you make them bouncing! Personally I learned djing by myself since 1996 and now searched for a tool to get more flexible in a live setup. I got a DJ-friend on the 1210 with me when i perform so that there is a nice mixture of sound. Anyhow you should not discuss but do your thing!
Greetz, Lide |
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crofty
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i'm a big Live fan and have been for about 7 or 8 months now. mostly use it for production stuff at home but recently have been using it for my demo mixes. have not yet used it in a live set due to not owning a laptop.
agree 100% with all the Ableton/Software enthusiasts. I learnt to DJ the traditional way (2 x SL1200's) but the things you can do nowadays with software are mind blowing. Like someone wisely said a few posts back "any monkey can beat match". |
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JoeSchmoe
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Hi Ableton jockeys
Well, I didnīt make a switch from nothing because I never had the money to buy TTīs and feed a vinyl addiction, but Ableton Live and sites like Beatport have changed all that for me!
So I bought 2 Behringer controllers (a BCR2000 and a BCN44) and for the past 6 months Iīve been making some mixes.
Hereīs links to my two most recent mixes, I like to say I play progressive electro-tech-house :
Nuno M - Vapor Transmissions (24-05-2006)
Link : http://www.sendspace.com/file/ouux6n
Tracklist :
Orgy - Vapor Transmission (Elementree)
Robert Babicz - Markatech (Original Mix) (Audiomatique)
Trentemoller - Nam Nam (Poker Flat)
Kenny Leaven - Wasabi (Traum)
Jack Kilby - Neutronium (Original Mix) (64 Records)
Tiefschwarz - Damage (MANDY Dub Mix) (Fine Records)
Jacek Sienkiewicz - Untitled 1 (Nuno M Edit of Original Mix) (Recognition)
Cosmic Sandwich - Man In A Box (Patrick Chardronnet Remix) (MBF)
Nutrunner - Open Spaces (Oliver Koletzkiīs Ellen James Mix) (Silver Planet)
Alexander Maier, DJ Allstar - E M O (Kleinkariert Mix) (Exun Records)
Sascha Funke - In Between Days (Original Mix) (Bpitch Control)
Marc OīTool - Pink Is The New Black (Electribe)
Gui Boratto - U-Bahn (Original Mix) (Audiomatique)
Blackstrobe - Last Club On Earth (Arnaud Rebotini Remix) (Crosstown Rebels)
Blackstrobe - n**i Trance f**ck Off (Holden Remix) (Crosstown Rebels) w/ Holden & Thompson - Come To Me (Club Mix) acapella (Skint/Loaded)
and another one :
Nuno M - For My Son (05-05-2006)
link : http://www.sendspace.com/file/j8fhub
Tracklist :
Booka Shade - Mandarine Girl (Konrad Troy Hearthrob Remix)
Ben Klock - Point-Blank
Troy Pierce - 25 Bitches (Gaiserīs Too Many Bitches Mix)
Oliver Moldan - Phat Laces
Oliver Koletzki - Da Bleibt Er Ganz Cool (Original Mix)
Thomas Schumacher - Red Purple (Original Mix)
Luke Dzierzek - Echo (John Dahlback Remix)
Johannes Heil - All For One
Fairmont - Gazelle
Ame - Rej
Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Umekīs Astrodisco Remix)
Akabu - Phuture Bound (Ame Remix)
Sono - Whatever (Martinez Remix)
Kirk DeGiorgio, Esoterik - Starwaves (Spirit Catcher Time Modulator Remix)
Facundo Mohrr - To Catch Me (Original Mix)
Ellen Allien and Apparat - Jet
BTW, if thereīs a more appropriate place to post mixes around here, please point me in the right direction |
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Last edited by JoeSchmoe on Mon May 29, 2006 11:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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acapella
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| Joined: 03 Dec 2003 |
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