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Wow .....Juno , you really have a grasp on the issues . I commend you on being so informed and so young. After all.....this stuff effects us alll , but I think it effects the younger generation more because you guys will face the draft .if it is reinstated .....also it is you guys that will end up with the cost of all of this ......and most importantly it is you guys that will have to live in this new America.......Why .....I remember a time when people in America lived care free and didn't have to worry about this terrorism stuff.....seems not so long ago.

Don't misunderstand me, Juno. What I mean is this: It isn't terrorism until the gun is pointed at us. But if we point the gun at somebody else, for NO REASON AT ALL, or for Natural Resources, it isn't terrorism...It's "GOD BLESS AMERICA." I love this country, I really do. But the people in this country give it a bad name. America declared war with Iraq--all over one man's greed for oil. And then we as Americans have the nerve to say "GOD BLESS AMERICA." We don't even have the humbleness to ask "MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA."

Here's a good example of what I'm talking about. The KKK used to dress up in white bed sheets and terrorize African-Americans. They would burn crosses and shed innocent blood of men, women, and children. IS THIS NOT TERRORISM? It's VERY rare to read any document that will label the the KKK as terrorists. Yet, in another point in time, MALCOM X fought back...he wasn't just some crazed lunatic like society tries to make him out to be. Society fought first, Malcom X fought back--for his people. The "gun" was pointed at society. In my old text books from school, and even in text books today, they have the nerve to call him a terrorist. So as I said, "terrorism is when the gun is pointed at us. 'Us' is everybody except for minorities, and even nations who aren't considered allies." And when we point the gun, it isn't terrorism.

What's wrong is wrong, and I won't "sugar-coat" it. I still love my country and I'm proud to be an American.

MAY God Bless America...

H..o..l...y S..h...i....t...... !!!!!! That was moving.....I sincerely mean that.....

You're right Mel - I think we're both hitting around the same idea - that there's two sides to everything. People can be seen as terrorists or heros - that's plain to see. But although knowing this - I still consider the suicide bombers, terrorist organizations, etc. as an element of evil - and I think any people or country that has had to deal with them would. Maybe we as a country are also seen as an evil and arent helping the situation much by initiating war.....maybe its just me but I've never liked that saying "when you dont know what action to take, take no action". Maybe it isnt our business to help Israel or mediate other conflicts in other parts of the world.....but the hard truth is that any country past or present, as I've said before, looks out for it's close ally's and it's own well being - thats what it all boils down to.....its not just the President doing this. But today when the whole world is looking at our country and with all of the technology its much easier for widespread hatred to build. All I'm saying is that there is tons of issues to look at and you cant just look at a few and make a judgement. Just in case thats too much, I'm dont think I'm disagreeing with you - just wanted to add some thoughts

AAAAAWWWW....... Juno you done went and f@#*ed up that warm fuzzy feelin' I had after reading Mel's post.....Don't start with this"they hate us because they're jealous of us" crap .If their leaders are supressing them , then they have no one else to blame....but if their leaders are puppets for us and are being kept in power because of our backing.....then they legitamatly have a beef....I think it's far more than "they are jealous of us because of our technology" You make it sound like they are incapable of advancing as a people.....How do you think we advanced so far? Aliens????We used the brightest from all countries....some we captured after wars and some we inticed with s@%tloadz of money ....."We" did'nt come up with anything.....Except maybe Teenage Mutant Ninga Turtles .......and the "Pet Rock"

???? Thats completely not what I meant - where did you get all that from?! I dont think you understood what I was saying - Read more carefully......i didnt say anything about any of that and you're putting words in my mouth......why?

You're Right.....I misunderstood......I thought that you meant that they hate us because of our technology ,,,,But after re reading it ...I now understand what you meant.....Because of technology....it is much easier for hatred of the US to be spread,,,,My Bad ....I apologise....I thought you were saying that they hate us because of our technological advancements and that whole rhetoric....I'm like Bill Mahr....If I hear the President say that they hate us because they are jealous of us one more time .....I'm going to smack him.....It is more complicated than that......But Again....My apologies to you .

soundboyz wrote:We did'nt come up with anything.....Except maybe Teenage Mutant Ninga Turtles .......and the "Pet Rock"

LOL! Hey man, you forgot about the Tele Tubbies!

Oh....I forgot about that.......

What'd you guys think about the Presidential Debates? I don't think either of them really whooped up on the other too much - it was about equal. I think Kerry kinda sugar coated his statements and made everything seem easy in order to give the people what they wanted to hear and there's no assurance that he'll do anything of what he said. Bush was more straight forward with his plans even though his public speaking abilities suck - like those moments where you could tell he was trying to collect his thoughts (just looking at the camera).....but you know that he'll do what he said because of that word "continue" that he kept using. Bush had a lot of defending to do because of the criticism of the war in Iraq but he stood his ground. Altogether, I think it was even.

Kerry won the debate hands down, well maybe not hands down but he won. I really dont get involved in politricks too much but Mr. Bush has to go.

I think Kerry won the Debates......Although He should have cleared up the flip flop label....I think he was very noble in not using the harshest terms.....when he could and should have.....He was politically correct not to .I think it's everyone's outrage of Bush and his policy that leaves us wanting more to be said in the harshest terms....but I think that Kerry was very diplomatic...yet he made his points.....Another key to the debates is that Kerry pointed out that you can be certain and resolute ....but still be wrong....and I have major concerns with anyone who cannot admit that they are wrong....NOBODY is right all the time !!!!!!!

Soundboyz, I watched the debates too. I think he left the flip-flop issue alone cause anyone watching knows that it was exaggerated by Bush. I was getting annoyed with Bush when he kept repeating "wrong place wrong time wrong war" and saying that being President is "hard work", as well as retraining troops in Iraq is "hard work". Allow me to be pissy: pooor George, awww, tooo bad, maybe someone needs a break! ... Duh! of course being president is hard work! That doesn't excuse doing a crappy job, though! And saying that Iraqi troops will finally be completely trained by us in 1.5 years is NOT reassuring. That means the US will be there at least that long, and God knows what else is going to happen there. Can you say Vietnam II? ... btw good point Soundboyz on people not being right all the time, I agree admitting to mistakes is vital in representing people.

Kerry definitely put up a strong debate, but Bush won.

Bush always wins...

citizen jones wrote:.....but i jus wanna know - do either candidate hav any 'domestic' policies - taxes, education, enviromental, etc??

Those are at the bottom of the pile right now. I'm sure they do but it is all about the war right now - thats what the ppl want to hear about.

Thats also why when I listen to Kerry speak it seems like he just tries to say exactly what the ppl want to hear - and thats why he flip flops so much because thats what politicians do when they dont want to be attached to an issue or opinion. Bush is very straight forward in that he will continue with his plan of action. If we left Iraq right now, just up and pulled out, can you guess what type of consequences there would be? - more terrorism and more crazy azz sh*t than ever before. Its what you call a "failed state" - Bush knows that; you cant just pull out, decrease your # of troops all of a sudden, or tell them a different plan of action and expect everything to be all peachy.

if you leave a country's economy and structure all f*cked up - there wont be any jobs, there wont be enough food, there wont be a strong govt & because of that there will be tons of really pissed off people with nothing to loose.......like I said, its what's called a failed state - look at other situations like this that have happened. Think of Germany after WWII - the Allied Forces couldnt just defeat the n**i or the SS and just leave the country - it takes rebuilding because sh*t goes haywire if there is no structure.

Mel.....Stop being an instigator....you know that Bush did not win .....He sounded and looked like an alcoholic dad who just repeats the same thing over and over again without giving any explanation why he's right .....he just is....and you better take his word cause he knows better than everyone else.....What was funny is when Bush said that he just knows how the world works......Before being president ....the man didn't hardly leave Crawford Texas....and when he was supposed to do that to serve in the Guard.....No one has any memory of serving with him....Not that this is a defining issue.....however I have no respect for anyone who wages war but dodged the"hard Work" when it was his time to serve....

Wer'e Working Hard........UUhhhh.....Awwwwww,,,,I Mean............uhhhh......It's hard work..............I'm working to keep the American People safe..........It's My job........Ahhhhhhhh.....I .....Iiiiiiiiiiiii.........Iget up Every day and think of what else I can do to keep the American People Safe............And I won't stop until I have done everything to keep Americans......uhhhh.........Safe......Uhhhhh...It's What I do......It's my job.....

Okie Dokie - Bush isn't a good public speaker........but he is a good decision maker and not a tool like Kerry. Kerry just stood behind his podium, smirking, coming up with anything and everything to say to make everyone Dont know about you guys but I see right through that. I agree with Mel that Bush should be put back in to office so he can finish what he's started - which I feel confident that he will do and that it will pay off in the long run.

What every think about the Cheney/Edwards debate. Caught a bit after coming home from the pub last night and found it quite funny that it decended into what it did.........

The Cheney /Edwards debate was sad....It shows how far our country has gone from being united and free to .....people deeply divided over everything.....And the loss of our liberties.......Cheney acted as if he didn't have time for this inconvenience and he was not interested in facts.....He just said whatever to pass the time cause he already knows what's going to happen come November.........The CIA says 4 more years.....it's four more years......

I'm not instigating, SB--its true!

Bush always wins. Remember about 3 1/2 years ago when the dead rose again to show their support for Bush, and how a lot of Gore's votes mysteriously disappeared? Say what you want to say about Bush not being a good public speaker. I don't like the bastard either. But he doesn't care, he's GOING to win no matter what. He'll be like..."What, I only have 5 votes?!? Okay, my hinchmen--go underwater and get the votes of everybody who drowned in the Titanic."

You're 100 %right........He can't lose ....not with all they have going on right now......he's going to win.....Even if he loses .....he's still gonna win.....He said it himself....."I'm Not Going to lose".......He already knows the outcome....

It really does.....at least give us the impression that we are a democracy.....I think Kerry is in on it too.....After all ...He's also part of skull and bones like his fellow member Bush........So....he's reading from a script of errors and is deliberatly looking weak in order not to put up a viable opposition....Sooooo....When they jerk the elections again......people will kinda chalk it up to Kerry not being strong enough........But Seriously....I want to see the Next Cold War kick off strong.............