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Just wanted to run this question by you intellectuals.....Is there a God and how do you know ?.....I want facts and not that faith crap I always hear.....Please cite specific incidents, names and places involved ........

I believe in a higher power but i really dont know of any factual information to support it. I sometimes wonder if God is in heaven or if there is just a "God conscious" to differing degrees within everyone. I believe in God because of interpretations of events in my life that I believe God has a hand in helping me with. The other side of that is that the "God Conscious" may be a subconscious part of my soul that lets me know what I need to work on and direct my life towards. Wow, thats deep - I'm not a lunatic, i promise

Sorry I gave you exactly what you didnt want but this topic caught my attention and I wanted to reply.

(Please note, do not be offended by anything in this post, it is entirely my opinion and I am not trying to enforce anything on anyone)


Whether or not there is actually an entity of some kind that you could call 'God', I think that the capacity for religion etc is inherently 'built in' to the human mind and human communities.

When humans live together, you start to have a culture, stories, myths and fables that people tell their children etc and people have beliefs about why their crops wont grow and how old granny goggins was miraculously healed and I think this is where the notion of a God comes from. Almost like emergent behaviour in ants, I think that a god is something that exists in the collective mind of a community.

I dont believe that god exists as a concious being of any kind. I'm pretty much agnostic really, not an atheist, just agnostic. I dont have firm beliefs in any shape or form, I always take the scientific standpoint with regards to evolution and suchlike.

Hmm, again, not exactly what you were asking for but hey, it's a public debate

Andy

Wow.....Both Andy and Juno suprised me with rather honest and insightful answers....I know this could be debated forever , however I get the sense from both answers that God is different for everyone....from being a entity to a conciousness that resides in all of us...... I agree with both explanations....Sometimes I think God is that energy that guides my conscience and tells it to do the right thing.....Other times I think God is the explanation why the unexplained happens.....I think the latter is what Andy was eluding to when he gave the example of the crops not growing etc...Do you think that Early man ....needing to explain why things happened or didn't......Created a all powerful "entity" in order to explain these events or non events? For example...... One day, they slaughtered a sheep and that same day , there was a hurricane...so they equated the two events with the might of a higher being for lack of understanding why a hurricane happens ? Or do you believe that God is the creator of all things including hurricanes and it is his will that parts of Florida is being destroyed by a series of hurricanes.......Maby God is answering that Iraqi ladies cry in Farenheit 911 to destroy our houses as we have theirs ?..........

soundboyz wrote:Do you think that Early man ....needing to explain why things happened or didn't......Created a all powerful "entity" in order to explain these events or non events?

Yeah exactly, before science was a viable explanation for the stars in the sky, the thunderstorms, hurricanes and also just the wonder that is life, they had to find some other explanation for these things and God provides just that.

Not that I think science could ever replace religion for most people. Even though I am not religious myself I think that it is useful in uniting people and providing a central focus for a community as well as a place where comfort and solace can be sought in times of need.

Although there are also other negative aspects about religion as well. Throughout history religion has been the cause of many many wars and conflicts. You only have to look at the modern examples such as Jihad to see this in action.

Point well taken.....

Speaking of Jihad...... Do you think religion might in a way act as a doctrine for a people's survival..As is in the case of Jihad....It is a call for all
Muslims to come to the defense of their religion when it is under attack.....Like those ants you mentioned before.....they have a defense mechanism to call on all the army of ants to work together and defend their existance when under attack .Maybe Religion serves as a creed or oath for a people to fight for their survival ?

Did God do something bad? You sound like you're going to serve Him papers. Hmm... keep the bail reasonable, please

Andymantell wrote:...Not that I think science could ever replace religion for most people. Even though I am not religious myself I think that it is useful in uniting people and providing a central focus for a community as well as a place where comfort and solace can be sought in times of need.

Even though I believe there is a God, I can totally respect your opinion Andy. Part of my belief is that there is a difference between religion and spirituality. Spirituality is a great thing to have and I think that anything that helps people achieve that sense of well being is something worth recognition. This is why I dont see why people of different denominations or religions argue with each other about what is right and wrong on a religious basis. If they were content with their own beliefs and spirituality there would be no need to argue about it. That just what I think though....I might be missing a piece of the puzzle.

Procleus wrote:Did God do something bad? You sound like you're going to serve Him papers. Hmm... keep the bail reasonable, please

lol no, dont take it that way please, the emphasis here is purely on opinions and nothing more. If you disagree with what I have to say then thats absolutely fine, and what's more it is interesting to talk about the differences in each others opinions providing the debate stays friendly, respectful and no offence is dealt or taken by anyone.
I'm sure the mods would lock this thread if it goes that way, which it wont as we're all adults (If only this were always true! (this is a general comment, not directed at you in the slightest Procleus!))

juno_reactor wrote:Part of my belief is that there is a difference between religion and spirituality.

Spirituality being something you can have without being religious in any way right? I see that more as a kind of 'at one with nature' type of thing. A bit like hippies / new age people etc. I guess in a way its another type of religion, just simply a religion without a central God character. You are simply worshipping the earth and doing lots of yoga!

Andy

to answer soundboyz's original question "is there a god and do you have proof?", no. there is no hard evidence that can make you 100% positive that god exists. and i know you said you didnt want to hear anything about faith, but thats what religion is. there is no explanation nor do people need one. its what they believe in. and to understand faith, you must have faith. i think thats why all the skeptics will never be satisfied. they just cant understand something they dont know.

i am a religous person. i dont go to church but i do believe in god. and not because i was told to, but because certain things have happened to me that have given me faith, and faith is all the proof i need.

Now we are getting somewhere.....AAj2006......You say that your'e belief is based on experiences that has happened to you that caused you to believe.....Now ...what if those experiences were guided by something else..... let's say a deceased relative or a spirit looking after you.....Could you be mistakenly attributing these events to God ,and not this other entity....So , you're faith would be attributed to the wrong force.....This is just all hyperthetical...of course.....

A spirit looking after me....

This is all hypothetical right? cuz it sounds like your takling about angels. And i've never thuroughly read the bible but i'm pretty sure they're on the same side.

I really dont know how to enterpret (dont laugh at my spelling if its wrong, lol) your question soundboyz. very interesting topic though.

Sorry if didnt answer your question accurately. I am a little confused about what you are asking me.

Hey.....according to the Bible......Lucifer was an angel ....if I remember correctly.... He was God's favorite angel......Now he's not on the same side ...is he?

Soundboyz, can I ask why you're on a theological quest? Most people don't worry about that stuff unless they think they're going to die soon. If that's the case, you don't have to tell me, but if it is, I'm there for ya, man!

If I can toss in my two cents: the only difference between fact and faith is how long it takes before you are happy with the "answer". I know, it's vague and corny, but I'm still trying to figure out a way to explain that fact and faith are the same thing...

I have those same thoughts SBz - i sometimes wonder what kind of entity or conscious is guiding me toward a certain feeling, especially when I dont understand the feeling - when it comes to that it's all hypothetical. It's like the old cartoons with a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other. I think the difference between an angel and a devil is the intent of actions - of course, we all have the sense of right and wrong. I think Lucifer became a devil when it's intent became evil. The history of religion starts to feel kinda like Greek/Roman mythology when talking about the story of Lucifer - I'd rather just call it the root of all evil (this is where researching the history of the religion and thinking about where these stories came from gets important).
Dont get me wrong - I'm not rejecting what you're saying - I have read through the New Test. and am currently struggling to get though the Old Test. - and I get positive, symbolic messages everytime I read the BIBLE. Basic-Instructions-Before-Leaving-Earth. I do feel that they are somewhat fact based but I try not to worry about what is fact and what isn't and just absorb the symbolism of the messages and how they apply to my life. Sorry if I came out sounding like an azzhole....i'm pretty tired - thank u ladies and gentlemen, i'll pass out now.....

Hey Procleus........I don't think that I'm going to die....but we don't know the time or the place.....I appreciate your concern and offering your support.....That is what we all need in these times.....Actually....I'm just like most people......I believe in God and don't go to church or participate or claim any religion.....Well....I should'nt say most people because I don't know most people....but I do have a strong conviction that there is a God......Like some of the people who have been replying to this post......certain events have occured in my life that confirms to me that there is a God.....For instance......when I was younger ....in my teens....I used to be somewhat of a rebel......like most people.One night I was on 42nd Street in Manhattan by myself and I was drunk.....I started to cross the street like the rest of the people were doing....they were already off the curb and in the street . Something spoke to me and told me to step back on the curb.....without turning around ...I walked backwards on the curb....I then heard a car rev it's engine and proceeded to run into the crowd of people right in front of me.......I then stepped into the street and looked and saw all the people were scattered in the road like manequins......I stepped back on to the curb and something told me to look up at a tall buildind behind me......I didn't know why I looked up at the building....I thought I was in shock from what I just saw......The next day it was on the front page of the newspaper......and the picture of the scene was from that building at the time of the accident.....the building had a camera on it .

You Know what.......You people have impressed me truely...I mean it.....I expected a bunch of shallow .....uneducated answers....but You guys have shown me that people are people no matter what.....and we all have the same thoughts ....issues and concerns.......Obviously , I didn't expect anyone to have an answer with proof , but you guys showed me that you have given this some thought before and tried to explain yourselves the best way you could.......I appreciate that.....Maby when more than one person comes together to search for the truth and try to understand each other ...that can be considered "religion" ....And "God" can be considered the force that moves people to do so.....One......

As simple as this may sound, consider it, people. Hope this can be a help to you.

There is a God! And He is real, and He does exist! All time is before Him--past, present, and future.

If there wasn't a God, how could all of this be...the blue skies, the trees, the oceans, the birds...life? Think of what we have now--so much technology like the Internet, Radio, Television, Computers...man couldn't have done this alone. God gives wisdom to us all to bring about His purpose. He's the alpha and omega. The writer of all our lives, and life as we know it.

Some say its all scientific. Well, who put the sciences in motion? The water cycle, the rotation of our planet, the seasons, vegetation, and I'm not talking about a Darwin theory, either. Some say we come from monkeys. Well, if you come from a monkey, that's your business. All men are from the same creation...from the dust of the earth.

Soundboys, you mentioned how Lucifer was once an angel of God. Now he's an "fallen angel," if you will. In the Bible, there's a scripture where Lucifer is stating how he wants to be like the Most High. Even the devil realizes that there's a God, and that he is the Most High! What does that tell you.

Hope this helps you guys. Holler back! Peace

True Dat...........!!!!!!

I then heard a car rev it's engine and proceeded to run into the crowd of people right in front of me.......I then stepped into the street and looked and saw all the people were scattered in the road like manequins

Do you know if those people are okay at least that night? That's psycho scary! That would sober me up in a snap!

I don't mind talking about theological issues, as long as there's no dogma. People get a little too excited sometimes, y'know. My approach is to keep it simple and sincere. Not many people will listen to much else.

I was so shocked ...I just walked away......I saw the cover of the newspaper the next day ....I didn't want to read it ....but I know that some of those people died..........