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elmattic · ACAS4U Phreakazoid

Once we get done agreeing on a common terminology, we can move on to debate.

The question I've been thinking about is whether the mashup is the logical extreme of music recycling = laziness = death throes of creativity and originality. Mashups tend to use very popular music--no one's doing mashups of Nick Cave and DJ Spooky, it's all Britney, Eminem, etc. There's definitely a skill involved, but are remixes more creative? Does the ease of mashups (and even easy remixes...and certainly the silly messing around I do) detract from the hard work and greater skill of real musicians/DJs/producers?

This is a similar question that was asked when hip hop began: DJs were lazy, they didn't have talent, they were ripping off real musicians. But 20 years on you have to be pretty small-minded not to see the creativity and originality great hip hop producers have using ever-shrinking sized samples (Bomb Squad, RZA).

So are mashups just computerized beat matching? Are they just recycling popular songs into faux-new content, and flooding our ears with it, at the expense of people who are making new works, pushing new boundaries? Should I shut up now?

Juggernaut · Moderator

That's a very touch and go question which merits its own thread. *snip*

So, to answer your question from my P.O.V, there are infact hoardes of "mashups" that do not involve mixing pop track A with pop track B. However, you gotta think about why mashups happen? especially now a days, i'd say it's just a backlash from the pop music industry and the ready availability of computer programmes and elements of tracks at the fingertips of "the nation".

Once upon a time, everyone wanted a guitar. Now it's more wide spread over guitars, "geeky" modulator type (key)boards, turntables and computers with an all singing all dancing multimedia suite.

It's the very nature of mashups, anyone can have a crack at it. If you're after that undercurrent of obscure almost avante-garde/ musique concrete type of "mashup" it's out there...but you need to know exactly what you want and what you're looking for.

It's exactly the same with music in general. We're all exposed on a minute by minute basis to the pop culture celebrity and their antics. The media force feed us with a splintered wooden spoon and hold our noses so that we have no choice but to swallow the vile festering gloop that is commercial pop music/culture.

if you want change, it's not going to come to you. if you want something, that means you want to go against the grain (as it were)...it aint gonna be easy.

*but thankfully google's at hand*

Right, that's too deep a post for me at half 9 in the morning.

elmattic · ACAS4U Phreakazoid

Yes, you're absolutely right.

I also don't want all the mashup artists coming at me with machetes since I don't mean to dis.

You make a very good point that part of what drives the massive DIY aesthetic is the garbage coming from the industry. It's the same action/reaction which provoked punk & hip hop in the first place, just with different tools and modes of distribution. And it's what keeps music alive.

I need to dig deeper to find really interesting mashups, like you say--just as you have to do with any type of music.

jefpeace · Moderator

I used to think mashups were merely a way for a person who had the desire to express themselves musically but lacked the talent to use a more conventional instrument to do so.

However, since taking a crack at it myself, quite frankly, it's much, much easier to compose new music than to mix existing stuff.

I've written, composed and released nearly a hundred songs and not a single one of them took as much time or effort as the mashup I'm working on now. Perhaps part of the reason is the one I'm working on doesn't use the latest songs. Perhaps part of the reason is that I have a 'type a' personality and it's not done until it's perfect.

But, regardless of the reason, I've gained a new and deep respect for the folks here who have taken existing music and twisted it, spliced it, chopped it, screwed it and/or mashed it to fit thier own vision.

I no longer think of remixes/mashups as better or worse than original music, I think of these as two seperate things entirely ... like jewelry making and goldsmithing are two different things.

Now, if you want to talk about how lazy it is to just do covers instead of creating original music, you'll have a strong supporter here for your argument.

Smilie_PDT

otg · Arh baby, ACAS4U's gotta hold on me.

I have to agree with jefpeace in that it's harder to do a mash-up (I'm not talking slapping an acapella over an instrumental, I'm talking about more complex mash-ups than that) than it is to do a remix, at least with a remix you have a single starting point, instead of multiple starting points!

jefpeace · Moderator

*nods to otg* That's exactly it ... and the reason I put almost 30 hours into my first mashup only to trash the *ahem* thing. Now I'm about 20 hours into my second attempt and I think this one's gonna' fly, but I'm still stuck on resolving an issue with a key change in the chorus of one of the tracks I'm using.

If I were composing new music, this would be an easy enough fix, but working with existing music makes it a real hair-puller.

I personally think mashups are a major challenge ... which is why I'm having so much fun even though I'm now bald after all the hair pulling.

Greg J · ACAS4U - a full PHAT 11/10!

DJ Bobby V · Moderator

I think it boils down to what the public wants.Turn on maintreem radio,at least here in the USA,and try to find a mashup playing.Are they being charted?Other than MTV is anyone making money from these?It's mosltly club DJs making and playing these.It's the "cool" factor.It sets you apart when you play something other DJ's in your area don't have.As far as being creative,some more than others.They can be a challenge.DJs,the good ones anyways,are always looking for something fresh.Right now its mashups,used to be remixes.

Ben_Double_M · ACAS4U Phreakazoid

i won't talk about the futur or mashups..because there's no futur for mashups..

it's too hard to clear rights for an official release. no way.. forget this idea.
and even if your mashup is officially released you won't win nothing, just because you're not the legal owner .. or maybe a credit on back cover.. but that's all.

(see Phil n' Dog's case with Mylo and Miami Sound Machine)

you can count the official releases these 10 past years..on one hand ..and half..
so, do mashups if you like to do that.. but don't think about futur..

fun..fun fun.. thats the main thing ;)

dcmusic · ACAS4U Phreakazoid

i think these days, mashups are just an expansion from mixing. When a DJ tries to mix a song into another at the same tempo, there isnt that much more involved in completing a mashup - just ensure that everything's in key and that the vocals match the chords/counter-melodies reasonably. Not to say that thos who do make mashups of the same genre aren't good at it, but I do think more creativity/innovation is involved in mixing 2 different genres...

DJ Bobby V · Moderator

As far as the future of mashups....well this site has 71,000 plus members....and it keeps growing...there might not be a financial future but there's an underground one.

imakeblendz · ACAS4U - a full PHAT 11/10!

i think mashups allow for dj's to create something new and fresh....not to replace the original or an official remix....but to switch it up and create an almost new song in the process. with serato, dj's can now create their mashups beforehand, and play them live at a club, something which could not be done in the past unless you pressed your own vinyl.

i think creating a new beat from scratch is much harder to do, and most dj's are not producers. the majority of remixes i hear done by bedroom producers are usually not so good....however i've heard a lot of good dj mashups.

mashups are in no way meant to replace new music.....but they are a great way to rehash old music and bring it to new ears.
on my mixtapes, i often will take an 80's or 90's acapella and mash it up with a brand new popular instrumental, to catch the attention of the younger generation who might not have heard of these older artists.

ROYALEFATALE · No longer the Rookie

"mashups are in no way meant to replace new music.....but they are a great way to rehash old music and bring it to new ears.
on my mixtapes, i often will take an 80's or 90's acapella and mash it up with a brand new popular instrumental, to catch the attention of the younger generation who might not have heard of these older artists."

exactly, i love trying to mix older songs with newer ones and seeing how they work together

thelettert · No longer the Rookie

You cant knock the guys who just slap insturmentals over vocals. I mean yea more complex mashups are great, but a good selection of the correct vocal and instrumental is key and will always put a smile on the average persons face.

for example i did a jay z and tiesto mashup, which is not all that complex, but the selection i feel is what made it.

www.myspace.com/djtthelettert

felixkat42 · ACAS4U Rookie now off the mark

I think mashups almost always use popular songs because thats when they have the greatest effect, but i've heard mashups of the most obscure songs before, just because people like obscure songs too.

as for mashup's integrity, i have a few mashups that i think are whole world better than the orignal songs alone, so if it sounds better, it has a future

lat · ACAS4U - a full PHAT 11/10!

I dont think that mashups are computerized beat matching.

It takes an idea, and skill to make one, and both are equally difficult.

Also, not everyone samples popular modern music.

CCC, one of my favorite mashup artists, samples pre 1970 songs almost exclusively.

Alot of other DJs use obscure tracks.

I have a few mixes of indie bands as well, but those arent finished yet....

worldfamous · Special Member

Yes, CCC is brilliant. I think a good mashup is easy to overlook in terms of the talent it takes to make it. That's similar to the art of being a good DJ. A good DJ is one who is nearly invisible. If you're spinning a non-stop set and no one is distracted from the music to remember there is a DJ spinning the music from the booth, then it's a success. Well, in terms of the house/trance style anyhow. A hip hop DJ is usually much more in your face when having good skills.

With a mashup, if you can't make that "leap of faith" into the sound and comfortably listen to it as a single song -- if you're able to forget that two songs are playing at once as enjoy it as a new production -- then I think that's the top talent.

CCC, Flying White Dots, Kleptones all come to mind as this sort of "transcendent" type of mashup production where it's easy to forget it's a mashup and, rather, just enjoy the production they put together.

Throw in editing and stutters, and it's a whole different story... but I think the goal is the same... If it sounds to obviously "made at home", then it might be a fun gimmick, but may also only be as good as the software used to produce it. Artistry of all this comes from a deeper vision for the result of what you're doing.

I'm nowhere near able to do this well, myself. ;)

WF

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